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Jeep's getting his groove back - Technique


michael.flitcraft

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Took the inlaws out for some Christmas shooting. They're from D.C., and one of the first questions was if there'd be any semiautomatic machine guns - just to give an idea of what I was getting into.

All said, they used a ruger standard, 10/22, P226, and a AK74. Gun was had by all, with the realization that movies and the media don't get it right by any stretch of the imagination. Good first introduction.

Sig had approximately 200 rounds with 0 malfunctions.

496 rounds, 0 breakages, 1 stoppage


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Took the inlaws out for some Christmas shooting. They're from D.C., and one of the first questions was if there'd be any semiautomatic machine guns - just to give an idea of what I was getting into.

All said, they used a ruger standard, 10/22, P226, and a AK74. Fun was had by all, with the realization that movies and the media don't get it right by any stretch of the imagination. Good first introduction.

Sig had approximately 200 rounds with 0 malfunctions.

496 rounds, 0 breakages, 1 stoppage (ammo, not gun)


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5 minutes dry fire work.

Picked up a second folded slide P226 this afternoon. Rails have practically no wear in them whatsoever, slide has holster wear but nothing crazy. Very slick trigger pull and the old reset with original grips and mainspring.

I'll be using this as my dryfire gun, and as a platform to verify what grips, trigger, I work best with on a back-to-back basis vs my srt equipped one. Should be interesting.

One thing I know I'll keep on the carry is the srt sear, but I'll be training in a non-srt. This is a hedge against short-stroking the single action.

Carry gun has g10 grips:
fb8be15c4766ea04217fd05b215d080e.jpg


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Did 5 minutes with the black-grip and 2 minutes with the G10 grip today.  I'm going to be working on software obviously, but it makes sense to optimize the hardware as well.

 

Initial observations - original black grips may be a better option.  There was no hunting for the front sight on the draw with those, but about 50% of the time with G10 grips there was.  The back of the grip is much more narrow than the G10 model, which I think helps to 'locate' it in my hand better, while the rounder/fatter G10 back heel area doesn't offer much resistance to being off plane.  The older grips feel more akin to a single stack in my palm, but they are a bit wider.

 

The old mainspring/hammer strut with the sheet metal shoe and long spring really allows for an easy, fast, 'camming' double action that doesn't disturb the front sight.  The new style with the plastic shoe and shorter spring does have a more consistent pull, but I find that I have to work with it a bit more to be nearly as quick.

 

The standard trigger works, and it feels funky with G10 grips but right with the older 2 piece grips.  The short reach trigger feels normalish  with the G10's, haven't tried a swap to the trainer.  The standard trigger seems to allow more leverage so the DA pull 'feels' lighter than it is.

 

The short reset sear does allow for a great reset, and will probably stay in the carry gun.  The trainer will keep the non-short reset, which I view as hedging the odds against short stroking the trigger.

 

So, there's 8 variables to mess with not counting sights and hammer springs.  I think that adds up to 13 possible combinations, but math isn't my strong point.

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Did some time today working on draw and reload components. Went for the par times listed in Stoegers book, except for the reloads - I'm not there yet.

Discovered that I really truely need a hardware upgrade for my mag carriers (using a hand me down fobus pos). I also need to change out the clip on my holster for belt loops, as the George came out with the pistol.

Clips are below - things were very rushed and failed big time several times. That's okay - things fall apart under time pressure and reveal what needs work.

Draw micro drill 1



Draw microdrill 2


Draw drill failure


Draw drill


Reload work, Burkett load


Reload work with empty magwell


Reload drill


Videos don't lie - needs work.


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Finished the workday early since it started at 0300, took a nap, did errands, etc., then sat down in the study to do some work. Measured the Defoor sights on one P226 vs. the 8/8 factory ones on the other, and they're identical save that the Defoor rear is a bit longer and give .25" extra sight radius, the machining on the planes the eye sees are different, and the front sight is .025" thinner. Notch, sight heights, etc., are the same. I'm finding that I work much quicker with a dot of some sort up front, and will probably look at getting a Dawson fiber optic front at some point. Until then paint works great.

Printed some 1/4 and 1/8 scale IDPA targets and measured out the ranging for the room to make life easier later on for doing simulated distance work. I can get out to 36 yards right now in this room, and it's nice knowing that distance is longer than any match target distance.

Did some Burkett reloads, no time, just working on mechanics.

Worked on draw from concealment, per Luke's razzing. Started with a 2.0 par time and worked down to a 1.25 par time, which is about the limit for me right now. I really, really need to get a new mag carrier. And soft loops for this holster, it came out with the gun again tonight. The belt might be too thick for the clip, but it's still a concern.

2 sec par time



1.75 sec par time


1.5 sec par time


1.25 sec par time



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Spent more time working on the draw, with the above focus in mind. Changed to a bit thinner belt, seems to have solved the "there goes the holster" dilemma, but I'll always have that until I get some loops.

Worked from a 1.5 down to 1 second par time for draw-to-fire, got sloppy and 25% or so success at 1%. A little more than 50/50 at 1.25 without a lot of errors.

Did slow-fire trigger manipulation, free style. Did .35 par time for firing after being at the ready, single action and double action, 10 reps each. Had some bobbles at first in single action, then it was easy. Double action is a killer for this one.

Did lots, and lots of reloads. I would eject the mag, catch, go to the mag carrier, and just repeat, with minimal downtime. Stopped when my hands were sore. Finding the 'sweet spot' to put the gun for smoother reloads. Still a long ways from getting smooth reloads, but they're improving each time.

I'm working on making a set schedule of drills for the next month, with a re-assess and press every month thereafter.


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Dryfire consisted mostly of rapid trigger manipulations. Noticed for the first time in my life that my right thumb has a sympathetic 'down' motion when I operate the trigger, especially in double action. I worked for about 25 minutes on keeping my thumb from moving after noticing this to no avail, everything from loosely gripped to death crush. If I can't isolate this digit, I'm okay with that - it's a repeatable motion that can be worked around.

I worked a LOT on gripping with my support hand vs. strong hand as well. I've been favoring the strong hand grip for most of my shooting life, and am trying to change that. One thing I need to figure out is how to keep my left index finger from creeping up on my right hand while I work the trigger. My left index slides up into the pocket between my right index/middle finger, pushing up on the trigger finger after a few reps. This is something I'm not willing to accept and will be working to find a solution for.


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Sounds like you may be putting an upward wrist force on the weak hand.  It should be downward.  Move the weak hand thumb slightly forward so it makes the wrist push down.  That will prevent the trigger finder interference.  

Also, keep working on that trigger finger isolation.  It's more important than you might think.  If your thumb moves you are likely milking the cow and not just moving your trigger finger back.  This couples your grip and your shooting.  Those need to be separated.  Strength training with COC grippers will help that.  

 

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Thanks for the input - I put my support thumb more forward than usual, and while my support index landed in the same spot, it didn't move.  Thanks for the hint and a focal point of future work!

I'll try to keep working on isolating the trigger finger, with and without objects in my hand.  I did my 'grip in the air and noticed a miniscule amount of movement in my other 3 fingers, and some in the thumb.  This was amplified if I opened up my hand some more.

I'm weary of COC, but I think I'll start using a tennis ball randomly in addition to my usual weight lifting.

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I'm not sure why you are weary of COC... but I'll tell you how I trained to greatly improve my grip.  I used to use cheap-o's and balls and stuff.  I did it for years with no progress. But once I did two things my grip improved a lot within about a year.  (also, while still fragile this has been my recovery from shooter's elbow)

1. For every set of COC grippers I did 2 sets of flex bands.  This makes sure you don't train one side of the muscle.  (causing tennis/shooters elbow when you overdo it)

2. Buy a COC that can't do 10 times.  Don't get one you can't do once either.  For me, the 120lb.  A guess to start with.  I could do the 120 lb one about 4-5 times.  

I started doing these on my way to and from work and would do 2 sets of bands (started blue... then red), and 1 set of grip for each trip.  Then I would do 4 sets and 2 sets.  Soon, I could squeeze the 120 lb COC 10 times without too much issue.  Then I purchased the 145 lb and I can now do that one 10 times.  I also have the red and green bands together for the flex. Not sure if I'll bother to go higher,  but my grip is nice and strong and my elbows do pretty good unless I do something stupid to injure them.  

All this helps to be able to squeeze very firmly and keep the trigger finger isolated.  If recoil control means, say 80 lbs and it's 100% of your grip strength then you don't have much choice but to incorporate all your fingers.  If that same 80 lbs is like 60% of your grip strength it's way easier not to use all your fingers. i.e., not include the trigger finger.

 

 

   

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09JAN2017

Did live fire today to mostly try and figure out what configuration of a P226 works best for me. This was limited to 15 rounds per configuration back to back. Of note this is the first time in a LONG time I've shot with gloves on a pistol, and found it beneficial if anything. Gloves were thin with suede grips and stretchy fabric over the back of the hand and fingers.

Upfront difference that has a huge impact:The trainer has original sig sights with the dots painted over in black to mimic my carry's black/black Defoor sights. The alternative would be to leave the front dot on the trainer white, as preferred, but would skew things even more. I noticed while shooting that I could still clearly make out the dot without thinking on the trainer and 'drive the dot' easily, while the carry was defaulted to the top of the sight blade picture (it's really drive the dot - but has no dot). I picked up the trainer's front sight much quicker every time, and am probably going to put a front fiber or night sight on my carry (preferred sight picture anyway).

Variables shot today:
old school grips/4 piece mainspring
G10 grips/4 piece mainspring

G10 grips/4 piece mainspring
G10 grips/3 piece mainspring (plastic seat)

Grip observations - I performed better with the slightly smaller G10 grips. This is in direct conflict of what I preferred by feel and dry fire, which is the old 2-piece grips (they feel more akin to a 1911 with 'fat' grip panels, as the rear is more pointed). The 2 piece groups were round in generic size, while the G10's were more flattened. Will re-try this by putting G10's on the trainer and originals on the carry to eliminate sights as the reason for the disparity. Other comparisons involved only 1 pistol for this reason.

Mainspring observations - I prefer the feel of the 4 piece mainspring. It seems to provide a quick 'camming' action to it and deliver a surprise DA break without any effort. Initial effort is higher with the old school, and likely has a higher trigger pull due to the longer spring (more friction against the hammer strut) than a comparable spring on the newer system. It's also a pain in the butt to replace the spring on, but the spring should last longer due to each coil doing less work. The 3 piece (new) main style with the plastic seat has a more linear DA trigger pull, and is a bit smoother as well. I did not try the new spring with old grips, as that requires grinding and I didn't do it before going to the range.

G10 grips w/ 4 piece provided a fair amount tighter group than new grips and new hammer spring setup, but wasn't a fair comparison. The plaster I was using fell off mid-test for the new spring, and I just used the 'point' as my target as a bullet had landed there already. Difference was vertical stringing with the new one, vs. circular on the old mainspring, carry gun with Defoor sights. Width was a little less with the new style mainspring than the old

Conclusions - all future testing will involve one pistol to avoid sights impacting the results. Mainspring style has much less of an impact in performance than feel during dryfire, although 4 piece was a little easier to get 20 yard headshots from concealment. New style mainspring wasn't far behind, but has benefits of less friction/lower pull weight by about a pound, and is much easier to replace/maintain.

G10 grips have a market performance in group size regarding height, but may have induced a horizontal stringing either due to hand interface, different sights, or just me. Will verify g10 vs old school grips next time doing live fire.

Had 1 failure to lock back with the trainer (old grips, full size slide stop). Have the small P224 slide lock on the carry for this reason. Noticed that with trying for a more aggressive support-hand position/grip strength that I'm moving the decocking lever a bit with the original one, might move back to the P224 one for this reason.

Trainer: 60 rounds live fire, 1 op-induced failure to lock back
Carry: 451 rounds, 1 ammo-caused stoppage


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We're headed out of town on vacation tomorrow, and with some family issues that hit over the past few weeks, this stuff has taken 5th fiddle. My mother-in-law has gone back to the hospital with a diagnosis of a chronic nerve disease and isn't expected to fully recover, and my wife's estranged cousin has reared his head for the first time in years (detoxing off heroin in another cousin's basement).

So, the gym and dryfire have taken a few steps back. For the 10/11/12 on dryfire, I've done 10 wall drills 2 handed/SHO/WHO double and single action, and then 20 press-outs 2 handed, 20 press-outs SHO and called it good enough to keep the dust from accumulating too much. For the gym I've done stupid quick sessions on an overhead press machine, bench machine, and curl, warm up till i can only do 5 sets, do 3 of those, then work down 15 pounds at a time to nothing without a break. Not worth bothering to record the weights since they can vary so much, and it isn't representative of the effort I'm putting out.

Headed to South Carolina tomorrow, back on Tuesday, with every intention to do nothing related to this journal. Time to relax for a moment.


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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, never a dull moment.  During vacation my wife decided to drop some serious news - so that put a huge damper on things and the drive back.  I'm going to do the lazy thing and say I've been pre-occupied and dry-fire hasn't happened since we got back.  Shot some pool at a local pub with a friend tonight and he brought up some things I hadn't thought of.  And I really need to work on not being such a lone wolf, so to speak.

Anyway, time at the gym.  I had to remind myself to add 45 pounds for the bar to everything when I did math today:

18Jan17
Squat -20x5, 40x5, 60x5
80x5, 85x5, 90x5
1875lbs

Bench -20x5, 30x5, 40x5
50x6, 60x5, 70x5, 75x5
1775lbs

Deadlift -140x5
180x5
1600lbx

Total-5250lbs


20Jan17

Squat -40x5, 60x5, 80x5
90x5, 90x5, 90x5
2250lbs, up 20%

Overhead Press-20x5, 25x5, 30x5
35x5, 40x3, 35x5
845lbs, up 10.4%

Deadlift -150x5
200x4
1550lbs, down 4%

4645lbs

Aux. exercises:
Barbell curl -20x5, 30x5, 35x5
Chest dips -8
Pullups -1

 

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First up, my failures - I did no dry fire since I got back into town. Between school starting and other personal matters, my mind hasn't been thinking about this stuff until today. Take note, dryfire is just like working out - take a week or two off and reality slaps you when you get back.

I did the "Find your Level" drill of the week today (27Jan17) :
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24048-Week-201-Finding-Your-Level

I cleaned level 1 twice, putting an extra shot (but still clean) on the second go. I couldn't move fast enough to meet par times, and my accuracy with the speed of that par time isn't there to matter. I realized this after 2 attempts at level 2 and didn't want to get bad practice in.



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Worked on reloads today. No par times, just the motion of clearing the vest, and getting the mag in, slide closed, sight picture. No trigger work today. Hands are tired as the dickens from doing this for 20 minutes.

42dc691513b469ffa46b12286d756f8f.jpg

Also took the time to put a line from a paint jerked in the middle only of the grip. Previously I've painted the whole inside of the magwell, but with a line I have a 'target' to aim at. Might change the color to a bright green or red of some sort later, but it helped.

Also noticed the minuscule magwell of a p226 and the shape of the grips help a lot compared to the old beretta.

I'm going to take a cue from dove and make weighted funny rounds to practice my reloads with - may as well make the mag actual weight and have the motions I'm working on be relevant vs empty, lightweight mag bodies.


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I spent about 5 minutes working on getting a smooth reload monday through Thursday - today I'll be spending 5 minutes working the basics of double/single two handed and SHO/WHO, no timer, just sight picture confrimation.  The reloads are getting smoother, and I've noticed indexing my elbow into my rib cage is eliminating some of the 'hunting for the magwell' that I've had.  I need to be more consistent in how much I rotate the gun in my hand to angle the magwell towards the incoming magazine, and have enough rotation to see the inside of the magwell as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 6 months later...

If the lack of activity isn't a hint, I've done about didly live or dry fire. Finally in town for an IDPA match and made a last minute decision to go. Shot the Sig P226, and told myself "front sight runs the show". I shot slower than I can by a fair margin, but had minimal points down (I did forget a followup shot, hit hard cover on another). Rode the scooter in and wore the leather from that for concealment at the match. Overall, for the lack of practice and effort I've devoted for months, I'm reasonably pleased. Plenty of work to still be put in. My buddy forgot to record two stages, so here's 4 of them below. I mentally screwed the pooch like no other on stage 6 (strong/free/weak was the shooting order) and cost me a lot of time, and accuracy due to thinking about what I've already done (vs what I'm doing now).







226 round count is approximately 900.


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  • 2 weeks later...

21AUG2017

Was put up in a hotel for 6 days out of town for work, with co-workers that didn't want to leave their hotel room. According to them, the town was hyperviolent - but they also grew up in towns with 2.3K people in them, or were people who never question the news and think all of the violence from the larger metro nearbytown was actually coming from the town I was in. I went for a few couple mile walks and saw nothing suspect, just standard mid-size town problems when the sun was up - only had one person try to get money from me, and that was 79 cents to get a total of $3. Heck, the homeless folks there went to the Y for showers (it was free for them) and worked with calisthenics a block from the hotel. I'm sure the underbelly was everywhere, but it kept a distance, and I've found it does that in most metro areas that I've visited (but I also don't go out at 0200 for a burger)


Anyway, I had a lot of time to myself with no other responsibilities, so I dryfired like a mofo. Got the 'path' for my reloads much more refined, having watched a several hour movie while walking/sitting/standing and just reloading the whole time. Did wall drills when I woke up and when I went to bed, free style/strong hand/weak hand DA and SA. Did a bit of work on the draw. It felt good to do that again. Decided the P2000 no longer fills a role for me, and that I'd rather have a steel P226 for matches. Might snag another aluminum P226, currently debating those options now.


Got back into weightlifting on August 5th, last time I did it consistently was early April.

(exercise/rep x set)
April workout
low bar squat: barx5x2, 95x5,135x3,215x5,215x5,220x5
bench press: barx5x2, 65x5, 95x3, 140x5, 140x5, 140x5
dead lift: 135x3,225x2,285x3
power clean: 95x3x5


spent the first week of august doing high rep/lower weights for the volume, and the week after low rep/higher weights.

Did 15 minute circuits the 15th and 17th with another guy in my unit at the base gym. Tuesday workout: 20 burpees, 10 pushups, 20 situps, 20 squats, 15 lunges per leg - repeat for 15 minutes. Forgot to write down Thursday's.

18 Aug 17
low bar squat: barx5x2, 75x5, 115x3, 160x2, 205x5, 210x5x2
overhead press: barx5x2, 70x3, 90x2, 105x4, 105x5, 105x4
dead lift: 95x5, 135x3, 205x2, 250x5
bench press: 95x5, 165x3, 135x3, 140x2, 145x1
dumbell flies - ladder from 15 to 35, drop sets from 40 down to 10

Bodyweight: 191 pounds
Fat %: 16.5%

Bodyfat % is a bit higher, but that's to be expected when the only food options have drivethroughs and I can't cook.

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Some basic dryfire work today. Working on draw/index and smoothing out the reloads. Moved to a P224 slide release and decocking lever to allow the higher grip (non-Sig friendly) and see if that will keep me from having failures to lock back. Absolutely a hardware problem to a software problem - and in the process making the slide release harder to work, but still very possible.

https://youtu.be/6K4qp6Mp6Gs

https://youtu.be/gFHdMWi71nk

https://youtu.be/VgeV1Tusf68

https://youtu.be/afjcNtZ45tk

https://youtu.be/75avypl-jp0

Edited by michael.flitcraft
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  • 2 weeks later...

Got a CZ75B SA gun with intentions to use it for target practice/IDPA ESP class on occasion. I used to think CZ's were the best for ergos - I'm finding that the folded slide 226 has now far surpassed it. The P226 will absolutely get the majority of my time and effort, and I'll use the CZ to verify sight work is correct since everything else is different and that has to be spot on.

Also bought a P228/P229 .22LR kit for cheap (P226 wasn't available, nor will it fit on my '87 model) - trying to get a P228/P229 for the next pistol, and set it up the same as the 226 when the funds are available for that to happen. Should be interesting to see how the slide weight/speed preferences between the models pan out, but a .22lr P series is something I've wanted for a long time.

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  • 2 months later...

Just sold off the XL650, and this morning ordered a Super 1050. In the future I'd like to add automation to do several thinigs in parallel, but in the mean time it will offer some nice upgrades over the 650 when being ran manually. I anticipate that next fall I'll be able to really use this machine to it's capabilities, and in the mean time I'll just take my time setting it up and tuning it.

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