Anybody run a 625 in IDPA?

[FWSixgunner]

I was told by the only other revolver shooter in our club matches that he has run one and the recoil more than negates the time gained from moon clips.

However, I was looking at IDPAs top 10 gun models shot in the Nationals, and the 625 was the only revolve on the list.

[TennJeep1618]

I ran one at a match last year. I honestly didn't think the recoil was bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aksq4qms7uw

[Racinready300ex]

I used to run one but haven't shot IDPA under the new rules. If I were going to shoot revo in IDPA I would take the 625 with out a doubt. I could run a 38 with faster splits, but just barely. The advantages of moon clips would out weight the slight improvement in my splits.

[Jim Watson]

I have been doing some side by side testing with a sawn off M25 versus S&W K and L frame guns and my old Python.

If I do everything just right, I can speed load nearly as fast as clip load and the .38 recoil is less.

But that is a big IF. At my level of competence, hitting the speedloader perfectly every time in a match is just not going to happen.

The current REV E power factor 155 is not bad in a heavy gun, but the REV S 105 is a peashooter. Wadcutters qualify, and I have shot them from the LAMR and reloaded with roundnose.

[Alaskan454]

I shot every match with a 625 last year and still feel it's the best platform for REV in IDPA. If you load 230 or 255 gr bullets 155 PF really isn't bad at all. Guys laugh when I say 255gr but IDPA prohibits long range shots, you won't see much bullet drop at 35 yards.

If you want to shoot a 38, BUG is 95 PF so that's where I would shoot a speed loader gun. They prohibit moonclips so it makes the most sense. I can reload quickly with moonclips 100% of the time, my speedloader skills are much less reliable. For what it's worth, I think Josh Lentz was running a 625 at the indoor nationals. He is lightning fast with speedloaders so that should tell you something. He also won the division.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Alaskan454

[MWP]

The 625 has a noticeable increase in recoil over the 38s. In practice. In matches, timer shows the same.

For a GM level shooter, the clipped gun is going to be .5 of a second faster than a speedloader gun, but that's .5 every time, and the disaster factor is higher with the speedloader.

[Tom Freeman]

I do. The recoil isn't a big deal. Maybe a little slower on splits. But I make back lots of ground on reloads.

[Flexmoney]

I used to run one but haven't shot IDPA under the new rules.

Can somebody post a quick summary of the new rules that apply here?

[jrswanson1]

I'd rather shoot a 610.

[FWSixgunner]

I'd rather shoot a 610.

Yeah, I'll get me one of those soon as I can skip a mortgage payment.

[Gregg K]

I used to run one but haven't shot IDPA under the new rules.

Can somebody post a quick summary of the new rules that apply here?

The short story is there is now only one division (REV) that has 2 sub-catagories, Stock Revolver and Enhanced Revolver. Stock Revolvers are your speedloader guns and Enhanced Revolver is your moonclip guns. If you shoot speedloaders you only have to make 105 PF and if you shoot a moonclip gun you must make 155 PF. The Enhanced Revolvers can run a modified cylinder latch but nothing like the Hogue latch. Here are the rules for the new REV division......

8.2.5 Revolver Division (REV)

Revolvers will be categorized into one of the two following sub-categories:

Stock Revolver or Enhanced Revolver

8.2.5.1 Stock Revolver handguns permitted for use must be:

8.2.5.1.1 Any revolver that uses .38 Special or larger cartridges with a rimmed case and is not loaded with moon clips.

8.2.5.1.2 The unloaded firearm must weigh 43.00 oz. (1219.0 grams) or less.

8.2.5.2 Enhanced Revolver handguns permitted for use must be:

8.2.5.2.1 Any revolver that uses .357 magnum or larger cartridges with rimmed or rimless cases.

8.2.5.2.2 The unloaded firearm must weigh 50.00 oz. (1417.5 grams) or less.

8.2.5.2.3 May be loaded via speed loader or full moon clip.

8.2.5.3 Stock and Enhanced Revolver requirements:

8.2.5.3.1 The use of trimmed (shortened) ammunition is not allowed.

8.2.5.3.2 Ammunition used must match the cartridge listed on the firearm with the following exceptions:

8.2.5.3.2.1 .38 special in .357 magnum

8.2.5.3.2.2 .44 special in .44 magnum

8.2.5.3.2.3 .45 Auto Rim or .45 GAP in .45 ACP

8.2.5.3.2.4 .45 ACP or .45 GAP in .45 Colt

8.2.5.3.2.5 .40 S&W in 10mm

8.2.5.3.3 Barrel length of 4.25” (108 mm) or less.

8.2.5.3.4 Be loaded to the division capacity of six (6) rounds in the cylinder. Seven (7) and eight (8) shot revolvers are permitted, but may only load six (6) rounds.

8.2.5.4 Stock and Enhanced Revolver Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):

8.2.5.4.1 Sights may be changed to another notch and post type. The frame and barrel may be machined to accept different style sights.

8.2.5.4.2 Action work to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained (smoothing the trigger face, removing the hammer spur, use of over travel stop, conversion to DA only and addition of ball detent are considered action work and are permitted).

8.2.5.4.3 Grips may be changed to another style or material that is similar to factory configuration, provided they do not weigh more than 2.00 oz. (56.7 grams) more than the factory standard weight for that model.

8.2.5.4.4 Grip tape, skateboard tape, etc. may be used.

8.2.5.4.5 Cylinder latches may be changed to another factory offering from the firearm manufacturer.

8.2.5.4.6 Chamfer the rear of the chambers.

8.2.5.4.7 Shortening of factory barrels.

8.2.5.4.8 Re-barreling to another factory offering for that model.

8.2.5.4.9 Firearms converted to accept moon clips may be used in Stock Revolver provided moon clips are not used.

8.2.5.4.10 Custom finishes.

8.2.5.5 Enhanced Revolver Additional Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):

8.2.5.5.1 Cylinder latches may be modified or replaced, but may not protrude past the frame in any direction and may not be thicker than 3/8" (9.5 mm) as measured from the side plate of the frame.

8.2.5.5.2 Conversion to accept moon clips.

- 40 -

8.2.5.6 Stock and Enhanced Revolver Excluded Modifications (Non-Inclusive list):

8.2.5.6.1 Oversize or heavy barrels.

8.2.5.6.2 Hogue Big Butt grips and similar are not allowed. The maximum grip dimensions allowed are:

5.00” (127mm) maximum height, measured from the bottom of the hammer opening in the frame to the bottom of the grip

2 3/8” (60.3mm) maximum depth.

1 5/8” (41.3mm) maximum width

[jhgtyre]

There is also BUG-R

8.2.6.7 Revolver BUG (BUG-R) 8.2.6.7.1 Handguns permitted for use in BUG-R must be: 8.2.6.7.1.1 Any revolver that uses .38 or larger cartridges with a rimmed case and is not loaded with moon clips. 8.2.6.7.1.2 The use of trimmed (shortened) ammunition is not allowed. 8.2.6.7.1.4 Barrel length of 3.00” (76.2 mm) or less. 8.2.6.7.1.5 The unloaded firearm must weigh 38.00 oz. (1077.3 grams) or less. 8.2.6.7.1.6 Be loaded to the division capacity of six (6) rounds in the cylinder. 8.2.6.7.1.7 The firearm must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 3 /4” x 5 ½” x 1 5 /8” (222.3 mm x 139.7 mm x 41.3 mm.) 8.2.6.7.2 Revolver BUG Modifications: Revolver BUG must comply with all Stock Revolver features and modifications, and equipment restrictions.

[Carmoney]

That is certainly simple and easy to understand.

[Flexmoney]

BUG_R

6 round bug gun.... buggered sounds about right.

[FWSixgunner]

Don't get me started on how they screw revolver shooters!

[jsg]

I agree the 625 PF is not an issue if you reload. If you have to shoot factory, the 38 recoil is a big advantage.

You can reload just as fast with speed loaders as moon clips. However a bad moon clip reload is just bothersome. A bad speed loader reload can be very bad.

I have a 686SSR and 625PC. I can shoot the 686 slightly quicker but shoot the 625 almost exclusively in IDPA for the reload insurance, ease of retrieving my brass, and since I use moon clips in USPSA.

[alecmc]

You can reload just as fast with speed loaders as moon clips.

I think most would beg to differ.

[Alaskan454]

Another thing to consider is retaining live rounds after a mandatory reload. It's MUCH easier with moonclips than loose rounds.

[Forrest Halley]

Another thing to consider is retaining live rounds after a mandatory reload. It's MUCH easier with moonclips than loose rounds.

Does this mean you'll be shooting the NC Section with moonclips this year?

Fair Warning: Ask to pick your brass up before you shoot after the squad is finished or don't come looking for it. I'm not picking it up for you and handing it back like I did last year after I saw you leaving it lie on all the other stages. Thanks!?

[Alaskan454]

Another thing to consider is retaining live rounds after a mandatory reload. It's MUCH easier with moonclips than loose rounds.

Does this mean you'll be shooting the NC Section with moonclips this year?

Fair Warning: Ask to pick your brass up before you shoot after the squad is finished or don't come looking for it. I'm not picking it up for you and handing it back like I did last year after I saw you leaving it lie on all the other stages. Thanks!?

I'm willing to bet you've got me confused with another revo shooter, I haven't had the pleasure of shooting a match in NC. But it was nice of you to pick up their brass for them! Edited July 17, 2016 by Alaskan454

[Jim Watson]

I have been pottering around with revolvers a bit lately.

K, L, N, and I frames.

The K and L are too close to call so far. but I am liking the K frame at sub-minor power factor.

The N frame M25-2 is heavier and a bit slower on the recovery at power factor 155.

A perfect speedloader reload is about equal to an average moon clip reload, but an awkward speedloader reload loses the advantage of the lighter gun and lighter load.

The I frame (Colt Python) is way behind the Smiths, the V spring action just does not cycle as fast.

[Forrest Halley]

Another thing to consider is retaining live rounds after a mandatory reload. It's MUCH easier with moonclips than loose rounds.

Does this mean you'll be shooting the NC Section with moonclips this year?

Fair Warning: Ask to pick your brass up before you shoot after the squad is finished or don't come looking for it. I'm not picking it up for you and handing it back like I did last year after I saw you leaving it lie on all the other stages. Thanks!?

I'm willing to bet you've got me confused with another revo shooter, I haven't had the pleasure of shooting a match in NC. But it was nice of you to pick up their brass for them!

Yes apparently I do. Please accept my apologies. Shooter using an Alaskan with LC in speedloaders had the audacity to ask us for his brass back after we picked it up. We get to the next stage as staff helping out a log jammed stage and there's Long Colt laying all over. So if he was too lazy to ask to pick it up, he shouldn't have expected it back. I gave it back out of respect for a fellow revolver shooter on my stage. After I saw it on the ground at the next stage...it was good he was nowhere to be found.

[Alaskan454]

No worries, lost brass is just that. In general if I see brass left behind I assume the shooter doesn't want it back. If I see them picking up most if it and forget a few piles I'm glad to help, maybe they didn't see it in the rush during scoring/pasting. Otherwise there are always a few guys making money by scrounging up the leftovers after a match.

[Forrest Halley]

It's not about money for me. I load it or give it away to friends.

[Alaskan454]

You know, I tend to do the same. I had the chance to donate some surplus 357 and 38 brass last year and they all appreciated it. I'm very grateful for all the help and advice I received when I got started, the revolver crowd really takes care of each other.