Stlhead Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Shot trooper again this year at the Ironman and it shines a light on my love for the 9mm AR. Is it possible to bring PCC into the 3gun fold? Or should it be left on the fringes as PCC only matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I thought 3 Gun Nation was doing this? Don't remember the details, just remember thinking "meh" and then drinking some delicious coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Can anyone fill us non 3 GN shooters in on what they are doing and how it is working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerhunter9790 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 3GN incorporated it into the regional match I was at. For PCC they would have closer targets that they may have to shoot twice instead of once with a rifle. They would utilize the PCC and could shoot the optional steel with the PCC and used the shotgun on mandatory shotgun targets. Seemed very cool to me. I am interested in it for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 I read the 3GN rules, but was hoping to hear how they are turning out in application? It seems to me they just got rid of the 223. My thoughts are more along the lines of keeping the 223 and allowing the PCC to do all the pistol work along with some of the rifle and shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 3-gun consists of a rifle/carbine element, a shotgun element, and a handgun element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 And a PCC could replace or supplement the handgun element. It also opens up new and entertaining ways to solve the shooting problems by making it safe to shoot steel at handgun or shot ranges with a carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshrider Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 At the SW regional, some of the stages had the PCC shooters engaging the targets differently. "If shooting 3 gun, engage white steel with rifle with one hit and blue steel with pistol with one hit. If shooting PCC, engage blue steel with 2 hits each with PCC." It made the stage brief confusing. If you have to have to specify a different stage procedure for PCC, separate the PCC stage brief and put it at the bottom of the page. Better yet, just use the rules and don't change the brief. "On all stages, PCC can be used on pistol and shotgun steel, pistol and rifle paper, and rifle steel inside 100." Hammering steel at close range with a rifle does look really fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's "are you ready, standby", (beep)->supervise shooting stage->"if you are finished unload and show clear""if clear open action" please explain the added responsibilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's "are you ready, standby", (beep)->supervise shooting stage->"if you are finished unload and show clear""if clear open action" please explain the added responsibilities? Different COF, different targets, or different engagement of same targets, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Why change the stages? Just let people use a different gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I just finished shooting Ironman in Trooper and never heard a single complaint from ROs and never heard them ask about PCCs. I used my pistol on 2 out of 10 stages and my PCC on 9 out of 10 stages. Only sdditional duty on the RO is prepping an extra gun in some cases. I'm thinking about allowing PCCs at the NWMGC this summer but need to discuss it with my partner first. No changes to targets or stage descriptions, just need to add some new rules. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Why change the stages? Just let people use a different gun. If you're dropping the pistol in favor of the PPC that works, the matches I've seen it was PCC instead of rifle. Then what about 100+ yd targets? Either you have a match with all close range so PCC is viable, or the PCC guy have to shoot different targets, bringing in added stuff the RO's have to keep track of, different COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 It's up to the shooter to decide how to solve the course of fire. You give them the rules and they make the choices. The more possible choices the more interesting it becomes. The COF stays the same, only the ways that it can be solved change. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 It's up to the shooter to decide how to solve the course of fire. You give them the rules and they make the choices. The more possible choices the more interesting it becomes. The COF stays the same, only the ways that it can be solved change. Doug So you are saying to make it a 4gun match, or an optional 4gun match, or??? No thanks...don't really want to have to haul 4 guns around to matches, 3 are sometimes a pia... jmho jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishop414 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I too like my 9mm AR, however if allowed in 3gun something will be affected and eventually you will have to use it and the option to use will be less likely. Yes stage design can influence but a lot of shooters will ditch shotgun reloading if another rifle can do. Or pistol for that matter. Also, matches are full, shooter turn times are tight, adding a potential 4th gun will slow it down or limit design. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickBlasta Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's "are you ready, standby", (beep)->supervise shooting stage->"if you are finished unload and show clear""if clear open action" please explain the added responsibilities? Different COF, different targets, or different engagement of same targets, That's just the MD needlessly complicating the stages. You don't have to balance the PCC against other guns because it's its own division, just use the PCC rules that already exist for this purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs. +1 ...and Trooper Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's "are you ready, standby", (beep)->supervise shooting stage->"if you are finished unload and show clear""if clear open action" please explain the added responsibilities? Different COF, different targets, or different engagement of same targets, That's just the MD needlessly complicating the stages. You don't have to balance the PCC against other guns because it's its own division, just use the PCC rules that already exist for this purpose. OK, we have 4-5 stages with rifle targets at 200-600 yds, how many PCC guys will complain about the 60-120 seconds of penalties on those stages? If you say use the rifle, then as JJ said it becomes a 4 gun match. The way I see it ,either the PCC replaces the rifle, or it don't. I may be wrong but it seems like a good way to slow down the already strained match schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs.+1...and Trooper Division. You going to have Trooper at Rocky Mountain? If so we'll need a Trooper shuttle! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 No shuttle, walk it like a Trooper should! And stay on schedule, or match DQ for delaying the match. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I guess you guys don't get it. The PCC does not replace the rifle or pistol but supplements it. Depending on the rules the shooter could choose to shoot some pistol and some rifle targets with the PCC. On some stages the shooter might elect to shoot only rifle or pistol targets with the PCC. The choice is up to the shooter and adds to the fun of solving the stage. Because a PCC can safely be used to shoot rifle, pistol or shotgun targets it makes a fun gun to shoot targets under 100 yards. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now