FF423 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Ive seen this twice in the past month so i thought i would ask. Matches are using Clays on the ground as "mines" and if you step/break one you receive a PE. What if any is the legality of this? The first match was a 3 gun match and I know outlaws can run anything the Match Director thinks up. But the 2nd match was a Level 2 USPSA match so I'm sure they have rules to follow. Please enlighten me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Did you break one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy0313 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I don't see why it wouldn't be legal so long as it was in the WSB for the stage. No different than having to fire while holding a prop or a cooper tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Legal as long as consistancy can be maintained from shooter to shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I see it no different than shooting from a beam or even a bridge. The level ll was Ohio. A lot went into those "mines". There were rods driven into the ground with round steel plates welded on top to insure they were always in the same place. The stages were approved by DNROI as well so I would think they were all legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 We just had them at a level II match, the stages were approved by DNROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Clays on ground, cooper tunnels, shooting prone, shooting from inside cars, 50 yard standards...all used to be done back in the day. All practical, all legal, all fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I think a better discussion would be what rule one might feel they violated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 There's some rule floating around that says you can't use improvised/non-approved targets such as clays (which doesn't apply to Multigun), but for pistol-only, clay land mines are just fine, and awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Woot! I say bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I like little things that make you think once in awhile. Even though I suck at it I like briefcase carry, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 There's some rule floating around that says you can't use improvised/non-approved targets such as clays (which doesn't apply to Multigun), but for pistol-only, clay land mines are just fine, and awesome.So you gonna draw up a stage for Pueblo next month with land mines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I was planning to avail myself of rule 4.3.1.8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 There's some rule floating around that says you can't use improvised/non-approved targets such as clays (which doesn't apply to Multigun), but for pistol-only, clay land mines are just fine, and awesome. The 2016 SMM3G match incorporated "exploding" land mines activated by a trip wire set 3 - 5 inches off the ground! Some of the competitors were very creative in the dance moves used to avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutycalls75 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I see it no different than shooting from a beam or even a bridge. The level ll was Ohio. A lot went into those "mines". There were rods driven into the ground with round steel plates welded on top to insure they were always in the same place. The stages were approved by DNROI as well so I would think they were all legal. I've been watching match videos on YouTube and saw these "mines" in the Ohio match. Interesting that they were more complicated than just setting them on the ground. I think it great to see this type of creativity in matches, especially as everyone has said nothing that prohibits it in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Agreed. Land mines are practical and on my daily checklist of things to avoid getting to and from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Not directly on point but had to maneuver around a backpack "IED" in an ALERRT class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Agreed. Land mines are practical and on my daily checklist of things to avoid getting to and from work. Same as walls with snow fence, cardboard targets and popsicle shaped steel. ? Edited June 12, 2016 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Agreed. Land mines are practical and on my daily checklist of things to avoid getting to and from work. Same as walls with snow fence, cardboard targets and popsicle shaped steel. [emoji23] Wait, bad guys don't go PING when you hit them? Crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Agreed. Land mines are practical and on my daily checklist of things to avoid getting to and from work. Same as walls with snow fence, cardboard targets and popsicle shaped steel. ? It's non-sequitur logic to compare cardboard targets to simulated landmines. Practical competition is conducted using practical targets, which reflect the general size and shape of such objects as the firearm used may reasonably be called upon to hit in their primary intended use. Simulated landmines might perhaps be realistic for someone in the military. Was IPSC created to simulate military scenarios? If so, carry on, but I'm pretty certain that no civilian in a first world country is going to encounter land mines in their day to day life. The challenge presented in practical competition must be realistic. Courses of Fire must follow a practical rationale, and simulate sensible hypothetical situations in which firearms might reasonably be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richc2048 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Glad I found the thread that explains the dumb stage I shot today. One guy got a procedural because a mag dropped on it. Another got one because RO didn't check the stage first. Video proved it but you know....video. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richc2048 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 It's like "let's think of a gimmick, then build a stage around it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I thought the gimmick props were for IDPA. Are you allowed to throw a friend onto the land mines and then proceed as needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I'm not questioning the legality of it. Just the practicality of it. If they are supposed to simulate land mines, the shooter should be stopped and the COF scored as shot once a "land mine" is broken. It's very impractical to assume that one is going to be able to keep going about their business after stepping on a land mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Well they were little land mines. No real damage, just a small bruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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