Randy Lee Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 6:19 AM, RH45 said: I bought a gunsmith-fit barrel, and had a local guy fit it. He's familiar with M&Ps, and welded up his barrel, and machined it to fit tighter, but, he said the Apex bbl he fitted for me is tighter yet. It will not go in to battery, if you ease the slide forward, but, when shooting, it goes in to battery every time. I went to the range yesterday, and put 50-100 rounds through it, off of sandbags. Even though it is more accurate than any factory barrel I've ever shot, I couldn't shoot a group under an inch. The closest I got, was with Zero, 125 grain, .356 jhps, with VV320 behind them, in once fired brass, with Federal match primers. 3 out of 5 were in a cloverleaf, one went high, opening the group to almost exactly an inch, and another went way over at 9 O'clock, opening the group to about 1 3/4". My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've found that on some days I just can't seem to shoot good groups with iron sights, like I used to, but, I had my Ruger MK II government along, and shot a sub-inch group with Blazer ammo, and the crappy, stock, Ruger trigger, which is what it always does, if I do my part, so, I'm thinking the fliers weren't me. I'm hoping that after I shoot it more, it will settle in, and do better. I had zero malfunctions. All of the ammo I shot were handloads that I did the "plunk" test to make sure they weren't too long. Maybe I'll try shooting some groups with factory ammo, but, I really don't expect factory ammo to do as well, which is one of the reasons I handload. Along with what others have mentioned, another thing you should check for is barrel springing. If you invert the slide and drop the barrel in, press on the bottom lug and see if the bottom lug springs back as you release finger pressure from the bottom lug. As the barrel heats up, the springing will affect group size, usually in the vertical axis but it can also show up as flyers. If springing is present, you may need to have your gunsmith dress the top 12 o'clock position of the muzzle where it is making contact with the inner top of the slide's barrel channel. -Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Randy I tried what you said, but, can't get anything to move. It is tight. Although, I do see a little "scuff" mark at the very top of the barrel, by the muzzle. Should I just shoot it, or, maybe polish it? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) Redneck Dykem (machinist's layout fluid) is the easiest way to tell what is rubbing. Use it to coat all the contact areas on the barrel, then cycle the gun until you can see where the two parts contact. Redneck Dykem is a Sharpie permanent marker. Might I ask why you're determined to get a duty-grade gun into sub-1" groups at whatever distance you're shooting? That's unusual on this particular forum. If we can hit "minute of upper A zone" at 15 to 20 yards, most of us are quite happy, so I like hearing from those with other passions. Edited November 18, 2016 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 On 11/17/2016 at 9:51 PM, MemphisMechanic said: Redneck Dykem (machinist's layout fluid) is the easiest way to tell what is rubbing. Use it to coat all the contact areas on the barrel, then cycle the gun until you can see where the two parts contact. Redneck Dykem is a Sharpie permanent marker. Might I ask why you're determined to get a duty-grade gun into sub-1" groups at whatever distance you're shooting? That's unusual on this particular forum. If we can hit "minute of upper A zone" at 15 to 20 yards, most of us are quite happy, so I like hearing from those with other passions. If I was happy with 2" groups at 25 yards, my original, stock bbl would do that, as well as my KKM, or any stock Glock I've ever fired. The more accurate the gun is, gives me more room for error, when I pull the trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, RH45 said: If I was happy with 2" groups at 25 yards, my original, stock bbl would do that, as well as my KKM, or any stock Glock I've ever fired. The more accurate the gun is, gives me more room for error, when I pull the trigger To be perfectly frank, I believe the goal of the APEX barrel was to address guns like my own. ...Guns which shot 8" groups (or larger) at 25yds with their factory barrels and heavy bullets... My 135gr load dropped from a group size of about 10 inches, down to a hair over two inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 I don't know how well it shows up, but, here is a picture of the "scuff" on the barrel. I don't know if others have had this, in the beginning, or, if I need to have something done about it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman2 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 On 11/27/2016 at 8:39 AM, RH45 said: I don't know how well it shows up, but, here is a picture of the "scuff" on the barrel. I don't know if others have had this, in the beginning, or, if I need to have something done about it. Thanks! Mind has the same exact "scuff" mark. I don't think there's any need to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I don't know how well it shows up, but, here is a picture of the "scuff" on the barrel. I don't know if others have had this, in the beginning, or, if I need to have something done about it. Thanks! come spring, I'll run 500-1,000 through it and see what happens. I have several different loads I want to try anyway. My experience has been that every bbl has its preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten-X Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Any feedback on the accuracy difference between the gunsmith fit and the semi-drop-in? I want the most accuracy I can get but I want to retain some amount of robustness. I have one lower with a stock trigger and one with an apex forward set and I would like to be able to interchange the uppers (one irons and one core) to shoot different matches - carry optics requires the stock trigger I believe. So my specific question is would a semi-drop in be a better option for reliability on multiple lowers??? And what accuracy are you getting out of a semi-drop in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 If you had either a semi, or, a gunsmith fit barrel fitted to the tightest pistol, then you SHOULD be able to to swap out the lowers. Apparantly, my Pro was the sloppiest, and now, with the gunsmith fit barrel in it, I can no longer put that upper on any of my other lowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) On 1/28/2017 at 0:00 AM, Ten-X said: I have one lower with a stock trigger and one with an apex forward set and I would like to be able to interchange the uppers... The final fitting that occurs with the apex barrel is a pad that rests on top of the locking block, and wedges the barrel between the underside of the slide and the top of the locking block as the gun returns to battery. This accounts for the very wide variation in slide-to-frame fit that you'll find in various M&Ps and locks everything up vastly more consistently. The above is true of both the gunsmith and SDI barrels. If you're truly after maximum accuracy, you'd need a barrel for each slide and frame combination you intend to run. Edited January 30, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mully383 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I've got 1500 rounds through mine now and this is what I've seen. The accuracy is great. Off hand I'm getting 5 in groups at 30 yrds. But I don't know what slow fire is. A couple things I first noticed was the gun kicked very noticably more then my other m&p. Switched out recoil springs and such to try and narrow it down but didn't figure it out till I ran them both over the chrony. The apex is sending them down range 60 fps faster then the old barrel. That's shooting 147 grn Leatherheads. The other issue is it blackens my optic in a 20 rnd stage. I'm gonna change my load around a bit and see if that makes a difference. I read somewhere on here of someone having the same issue with the dirty optic. Anyone else experienced this and get it to stop. I'm using nv320 powder currently but most likely switching back to bullseye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckham Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I have had the same problem with the dirty optic using Apex barrel. This is happening with coated SNS and Berry bullets using Titegroup. I need to try some on my loads with Solo 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybooboo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I am planning to get a gunsmith fit barrel for my 2.0. I won't do the fitting myself and will take it to a gunsmith. Is this a pretty routine and simple thing for a smith to do? My local smith builds 1911s so I imagine it's nothing for him to fit a barrel but I just want to make sure it's not something that can be easily messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpom Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 As long as the smith follows Randy's instructions, should be a piece of cake. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldor Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 11/25/2016 at 7:35 AM, MemphisMechanic said: To be perfectly frank, I believe the goal of the APEX barrel was to address guns like my own. ...Guns which shot 8" groups (or larger) at 25yds with their factory barrels and heavy bullets... My 135gr load dropped from a group size of about 10 inches, down to a hair over two inches. This is my problem as well in my 5" Pro. 50' groups are 6-8" at best, shooting off a bag, Apex trigger, KKM barrel. Shooting standing, but not incredibly fast, a shot every 1-2 seconds at 50', Im just holding all shots on a 12" plate... ugg... I have a KKM in the gun right now, which was a slight improvement over my factory S&W 1 dot barrel. Apex barrel will be incoming this spring and my KKM and stock barrel will hit the For Sale section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, Kaldor said: This is my problem as well in my 5" Pro. 50' groups are 6-8" at best, shooting off a bag, Apex trigger, KKM barrel. Shooting standing, but not incredibly fast, a shot every 1-2 seconds at 50', Im just holding all shots on a 12" plate... ugg... Using what kind(s) of ammunition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldor Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: Using what kind(s) of ammunition? 147gr Acme over 3.1gr TG. Ive tried 115's and 124's as well, both with TG and CFE, same results. Same results with facotry 124gr ball as well. Gun is just all over the place. Im not a great pistol shot, but rested, I should be able to get a good idea of how accurate or not accurate the gun is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) That tracks... supposedly heavier bullets were the ones they wouldn't shoot worth a damn. Mine only ever got fed coated 130s and 135s. Group size shrunk by 2/3s when I fit the semi drop-in. I tested it with the exact same ammo and a quick barrel swap at the range - same ammo, same trip. The Apex barrel does shoot much straighter, and does feel different when shooting fast, right when the gun locks into battery. Edited February 1, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldor Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Thanks Memphis, Ive seen the groups you shot before and after. My gun is very similar. I like the M&P platform, but the 5" guns really seem to suffer from accuracy issues. The next quest is SDI or gunsmith? The SDI is easy, Ive watched the videos. But Id really like to try the gunsmith version, providing its not a nightmare to get running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) The only thing the gunsmith has, is more material to remove. Unless your gun is really really really bad, an SDI will work as well. It's easy to fit with patience, a sharpie, and a hand file, too. Just time consuming. Edited February 1, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Gunsmith fit wasn't bad to install. Mine likes light, fast bullets. I did a bunch of work to the factory barrel while I waited for the Apex to show up. Best group was still over 2 inches at 25. Apex gunsmith fit, 1.07" at 25. I was very impressed. 4.11" at 50, but a flier ruined what could have been a great group (shot standing). It will also keep them in the A zone at 100y too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldor Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 When you guys say more material to remove, are you talking from the top and bottom of the barrel? Hood and lug. Sorry, coffee just kicking in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The lug underneath. The last thing you fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldor Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said: The lug underneath. The last thing you fit. Thanks, Ill go with the gunsmith version then. If it takes me an extra 30 minutes, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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