Nemesis Lead Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I have 2 M & P 9Ls. One had great accuracy. The other is awful. I was thinking of getting an Apex barrel. Can Apex users please comment on: 1) Accuracy Improvement. 2) Ease of installation (I have seen the video--what did you have to file and how much filing did you do?). 3) The reliability of the gun with the Apex barrel. Many thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I ran 3,800 rounds through my SDI'd 9L when Ben Stoeger did 4 days of classes here, last month. No cleaning. 3 malfunctions. All of those were rounds loaded with the primer inserted backward. (I don't do any quality control on practice ammo) ... That adds up to zero malfunctions caused by the firearm.I've posted in a very recent thread here about the accuracy improvement. It's now more accurate than I am. I can't shoot smaller than a 2-3" group at 25yd to be honest, but the gun will do that easily when I don't pull a flyer. Wouldn't group under 7-8 inches beforehand with the exact same ammo. I swapped barrels and shot groups back to back. Shocking improvement.Easy to install. Took three hours of slow and careful fitting and testing. Edited June 10, 2016 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molon Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Apex Grade Gunsmith Fit Barrel - 4.25” I purchased my Apex Grade Gunsmith Fit Barrel (4.25”) directly from Apex Tactical Specialties. I shipped my Smith & Wesson M&P9 CORE directly to them for the fitting/installation of the barrel. The pics shown below give you a look at the different geometry that Apex Tactical Specialties developed for their barrel. I paid the additional fee for Apex Tactical Specialties to test-fire my M&P9 CORE after their fitted barrel was installed. The test-target that was included with my returned pistol is pictured below. Aside from some brief demographics written on the test-target, the only technical information that was written on the test-target was a note stating: 10 @ 10 I can only assume that meant that the test-target was of a 10-shot group fired at a distance of 10 yards. The group has an extreme spread of 2.226”. An extreme spread of 2.226” at 10 yards would sub-tend to an extreme spread of 5.565” at 25 yards. My M&P9 CORE grouped better than that with the original factory barrel. The Apex Tactical Specialties test-target . . . In a duplicate of this thread that I posted on another website, Randy Lee (co-owner of Apex Tactical Specialties) posted the following comments about the test-target. “I figured I should chime in about the test target in question. The target does reflect 10 shots from a distance of 10 yards offhand. It was what our technician shot for function and approximate sight in after the barrel was fitted, not for group. The technician was shooting in a poorly lit indoor range using the iron sights, since the optic was not provided. This was also in the mix of some 20 firearms that the tech had to test fire that day. While I will not make any excuses for the large group, it is important to bear in mind that the gun is obviously capable of consistent mechanical accuracy. The test fire fee is not the same as the Ransom Rest accuracy charge. If you were charged for the Ransom Rest test, please call our office so we can arrange for your gun to be returned to us for expedited Ransom testing. We differentiate function/sight adjustment targets from accuracy targets by the red center. When I shoot from the Ransom Rest, I use a black and white target with a black dot in the center because the RMR dot matches the 1" black center at 25 yards. . . . We are changing our test fire procedures for barrels we fit in house as a result of this thread to reflect mechanical accuracy. It was one of the things that slipped through the cracks since I have been doing more administrative work that back at the bench or in the shop.” ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molon Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) 02/28/16 To date, I’ve fired 150 rounds of quality factory loaded ammunition through the Apex Grade Gunsmith Fit Barrel during function testing and barrel break-in. I like to have fired at least 200 rounds through a pistol barrel before conducting an accuracy evaluation of it. There have been no malfunctions with the Apex barrel in my M&P9 CORE while firing an assortment of: Federal 9BP 115 grain JHP Speer 124 grain Gold Dot Federal 9MS 147 grain JHP Federal 147 grain HST Speer 147 grain Gold Dot G2. Since the Apex Tactical Specialties test-target was fired at a distance of only 10 yards, I did fire a few 10-shot groups from a distance of 10 yards (from the bench) for comparison. The group pictured below was fired using factory loaded Federal 147 grain HST ammunition. The group has an extreme spread of 0.633”. .... .... 03/08/16 The 10-shot group pictured below was fired at a distance of 15 yards using factory loaded 124 grain Gold Dot ammunition. The group has an extreme spread of 0.912". ..... 03/12/16 At this point, I have a total of 300 rounds of factory-loaded ammunition fired from the Apex Grade Gunsmith Fit Barrel and have not had any malfunctions. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from the bench at a distance of 25 yards using factory-loaded Federal 124 grain HST ammunition. The group has an extreme spread of 1.38" .... The recessed crown . . . ..... Edited June 11, 2016 by Molon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molon Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) ..... 05/07/16 Here's a pic of another 10-shot group fired off the the bench at a distance of 25 yards. This group was fired using one of my standard hand-loads (not tuned for any particular barrel) that is seated with the Federal 124 grain HST bullet. The group has an extreme spread of 1.08". Strictly for kicks and giggles, here's a pic of a statistically insignificant 5-shot group fired from the bench at a distance of 25 yards. The group has an extreme spread of 0.75". ..... 5/08/16 To date, I’ve fired 850 rounds from the Apex barrel. There have been no malfunctions to report. .... As before, the statistically insignificant 5-shot groups pictured below are strictly for kicks and giggles. These groups were fired off the bench at a distance of 50 yards. This group was fired using Federal factory loaded 147 grain HST ammunition. The group has an extreme spread of 1.88” This next group was fired using one of my standard hand-loads (not tuned for any particular barrel) that is seated with the Speer 124 Gold Dot bullet. The group has an extreme spread of 1.49” Continuing with one of my standard hand-loads topped with the Hornady 90 grain XTP bullet, the Apex barrel turned in this 5-shot group with an extreme spread of 1.38”. Lastly, my particular barrel has shown a preference for the 124 grain HST projectile. This 5-shot group was fired using my standard hand-load for that bullet. The group has an extreme spread of 0.93”. .... Edited June 11, 2016 by Molon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molon Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) 06/10/16 To date, I have a total of 1105 rounds fired through the Apex barrel; no malfunctions to report. Velocity Comparison I compared the velocities of three different bullet weights fired from the Apex Grade barrel fired back-to-back with the factory original barrel. The strings of fired consisted of 10-shots over an Oehler 35-P chronograph. All velocities listed in the table below are muzzle velocities, as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler's Ballistic Explorer software. Atmospheric conditions Temperature: 78 degrees F Humidity: 42% Barometric pressure: 30.03 inches of Hg Elevation: 950 feet above sea level .... Edited June 11, 2016 by Molon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Nice! If I was posting pictures of my groups at 50 yards I would have to include that 6 of the 10 shots actually hit the target and can be seen on the left side of my target: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 There are several threads on here about our successes with the Apex barrel. My best rested group at 25y is 1.009" 5 shots. Freestyle is 1.78". Even got out to 50y this weekend, 4.11" 5 shot group while standing unsupported (freestyle). I have well over 1000 rounds through with zero malfunctions. At matches, I'm the guy telling everyone with an M&P "you need an Apex barrel". Ammo used is factory 100gr Frangible at 1275fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I do jot have many rounds through my Apex barrel since I had shoulder surgery and have not been cleared to shoot a 2 handed grip yet. I can however talk about my fitting process. The muzzle on my 5" pro series was tight and took a fair amount of fitting on the muzzle end to get the barrel into the slide I Had to remove material in other spots other than where APEX shows in the video the rest of the fitting was easy and done within 40 minutes. I did have barrel springing so I used sharpie on the muzzle end to see my contact points and very slowly fit the muzzle end again to remove the springing. This was a first generation production barrel that I purchased at the end of February. I had to send it back to have the relief cut added and APEX just swapped me a new barrel since I had already fit the barrel. And my slide should be sitting in my mailbox when I get home. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpom Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Shot my 9Pro in a 3gun match since installing it. Outstanding performance- much better accuracy, 0 malfunctions, increased confidence and speed. Before the match I benched the gun at 25 yards both for sighting in and accuracy assessment. Groups around 2-3 inches, no fliers. This is a major improvement over the OEM barrel. Do need a shorter Dawson front sight to get elevation spot on, but that is not a reflection on the barrel. Prior matches left me frustrated with misses that I thought were well aimed. Now there is consistency and predictability in where the bullets are going. Install was uneventful, only needed to work on breech end and pad under chamber. Thought I had left too much material on bottom pad, as slide would only lock up when released from full lock back, not if released slowly. However it seems to be wearing in just fine, never an issue when live firing. Amount of force required for final lockup when release slowly is diminishing, now only a couple of pounds. Did have some issues, as did others, with first versions of this barrel, but am very happy with current version. Money well spent. Thanks Randy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Shot my 9Pro in a 3gun match since installing it. Outstanding performance- much better accuracy, 0 malfunctions, increased confidence and speed. Before the match I benched the gun at 25 yards both for sighting in and accuracy assessment. Groups around 2-3 inches, no fliers. This is a major improvement over the OEM barrel. Do need a shorter Dawson front sight to get elevation spot on, but that is not a reflection on the barrel. Prior matches left me frustrated with misses that I thought were well aimed. Now there is consistency and predictability in where the bullets are going. Install was uneventful, only needed to work on breech end and pad under chamber. Thought I had left too much material on bottom pad, as slide would only lock up when released from full lock back, not if released slowly. However it seems to be wearing in just fine, never an issue when live firing. Amount of force required for final lockup when release slowly is diminishing, now only a couple of pounds. Did have some issues, as did others, with first versions of this barrel, but am very happy with current version. Money well spent. Thanks Randy! I'm glad the barrel is performing for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B585 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Another very happy Apex customer here. My accuracy from my factory barrel was aweful (PC 5"). Got the Apex barrel and everything changed....this barrel appears to be more accurate than me. I have several sub 2" groups of 5 to 10 shot groups with Dawson sights ranging 22 to 31 yards. I suspect the groups would be even better with someone more skilled behind the trigger. I have ~2300-2700 rounds of factory ammo and have NEVER had a malfunction. I also have the internal Apex trigger upgrades (only what is legal to stay in Production Class). If it wasn't for Apex, I would have sold this gun. I can't thank Randy enough because I love the ergos of M&P and now I have the accuracy and reliability to match. As far as fitting the barrel, mine took very little and I never had fit a barrel before and didn't have any trouble so its not too tough. Watch videos and just go slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I'm happy to hear that you are having good results with our barrel B585. Now with the move to a larger facility at hand, I look forward to seeing what other barrels we can make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Randy, make us a 5" slide too, as S&W doesn't want to sell us one for no obvious reasons You know .. in case you are bored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Maybe Smith will follow suit after our 6" slide hits the market next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbadoc Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 hummm... 6" gets my attention for sure can't wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avedis Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Five 5" barrels in stock and ready to shiphttps://www.twobrostactical.com/collections/m-p/products/m-p-apex-grade-semi-drop-in-barrel-select-length?variant=16599236166 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 My original 5" Pro barrel grouped 2" at 25 yards, with loads it liked. Then S&W replaced the barrel with a newer one, and it was horrible. I picked up a used KKM, because the Apex barrels weren't available yet,, and only found one load, with 115 grain jhps that will group under 2" at 25 yards. I would REALLY like a gunsmith fit Apex, preferably fit by them, but, I can only seem to find the semi drop ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I just checked their website. It seems pretty straightforward to order a gunsmith fit barrel. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 8 hours ago, ddc said: I just checked their website. It seems pretty straightforward to order a gunsmith fit barrel. What am I missing? I'm not very good at finding stuff on websites. Thanks! Maybe I'll just call them. I knew they were in the middle of moving, and didn't want to bother them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If my experience with the SDI is any indication I'm guessing you will be very happy with an Apex fitted gunsmith fit barrel. Please let us know how it works out after you get it back; I'm very curious. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titaniumbadger22 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I have the SDI installed. I also had barrel springing causing it to not go into battery, had to remove some material from the front of the barrel. After I got that sorted out, mine had a very tight/short throat, so it would not work with some of my reloads that my other guns like. I was having to seat my bullets very deep to get them to work. I bought a throating reamer and fixed that. Now I can use all the bullets I like to use at the same OAL as my other guns. (My CZ SP01 Shadow was also pretty short, not as short as the APEX, but I've now reamed all my barrels to give me more flexibility). BTW, the stock M&P barrel would take any bullet. Overall though, I'm happy, accuracy is much better and I like fiddling with stuff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I bought a gunsmith-fit barrel, and had a local guy fit it. He's familiar with M&Ps, and welded up his barrel, and machined it to fit tighter, but, he said the Apex bbl he fitted for me is tighter yet. It will not go in to battery, if you ease the slide forward, but, when shooting, it goes in to battery every time. I went to the range yesterday, and put 50-100 rounds through it, off of sandbags. Even though it is more accurate than any factory barrel I've ever shot, I couldn't shoot a group under an inch. The closest I got, was with Zero, 125 grain, .356 jhps, with VV320 behind them, in once fired brass, with Federal match primers. 3 out of 5 were in a cloverleaf, one went high, opening the group to almost exactly an inch, and another went way over at 9 O'clock, opening the group to about 1 3/4". My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've found that on some days I just can't seem to shoot good groups with iron sights, like I used to, but, I had my Ruger MK II government along, and shot a sub-inch group with Blazer ammo, and the crappy, stock, Ruger trigger, which is what it always does, if I do my part, so, I'm thinking the fliers weren't me. I'm hoping that after I shoot it more, it will settle in, and do better. I had zero malfunctions. All of the ammo I shot were handloads that I did the "plunk" test to make sure they weren't too long. Maybe I'll try shooting some groups with factory ammo, but, I really don't expect factory ammo to do as well, which is one of the reasons I handload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 You might want to check your crimp, it can have a tremendous effect on accuracy. (Or try "store bought" ammo in your Apex for comparison to the Ruger) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 hours ago, RH45 said: I bought a gunsmith-fit barrel, and had a local guy fit it. He's familiar with M&Ps, and welded up his barrel, and machined it to fit tighter, but, he said the Apex bbl he fitted for me is tighter yet. It will not go in to battery, if you ease the slide forward, but, when shooting, it goes in to battery every time. I went to the range yesterday, and put 50-100 rounds through it, off of sandbags. Even though it is more accurate than any factory barrel I've ever shot, I couldn't shoot a group under an inch. The closest I got, was with Zero, 125 grain, .356 jhps, with VV320 behind them, in once fired brass, with Federal match primers. 3 out of 5 were in a cloverleaf, one went high, opening the group to almost exactly an inch, and another went way over at 9 O'clock, opening the group to about 1 3/4". My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've found that on some days I just can't seem to shoot good groups with iron sights, like I used to, but, I had my Ruger MK II government along, and shot a sub-inch group with Blazer ammo, and the crappy, stock, Ruger trigger, which is what it always does, if I do my part, so, I'm thinking the fliers weren't me. I'm hoping that after I shoot it more, it will settle in, and do better. I had zero malfunctions. All of the ammo I shot were handloads that I did the "plunk" test to make sure they weren't too long. Maybe I'll try shooting some groups with factory ammo, but, I really don't expect factory ammo to do as well, which is one of the reasons I handload. At 25 yards? Personally I'd find 1.5" at that distance to be rather impressive for a plastic gun like Glock or M&P Next time, drop the factory barrel back in and shoot them back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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