Ross Carter Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I've seen the rule stating all safeties must operate but what about using a one piece beavertail and mainspring housing on a 1911 style pistol? Since the safety is not there would that be legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Perfectly legal, since there's no "safety" to deactivate. The referees at check-in will look at you funny, but this one's a no-brainer. If it doesn't exist, it can't "operate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 Thanks, I have real problems with grip safeties so I'll go that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I hate bad rules. If I was the Zebra I would rule not legal as a safety was removed. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ross, do you have a source for the one piece grip safety and mainspring housing? It appears that KT Ordnance no longer offers them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 I don't will have to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I can see Tom's point...perhaps you should run it by Damien or someone at the NRA before starting the Tig welder up. Could save some time and a mess of frustration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 I haven't shot in a long time and not trying to be a SA but, is the process for getting a equipment rules clarification more "streamlined" than it was in the way back? It's not an issue of preference for me it's a physical problem. I may better start looking for a Star, wonder how accurate I can get one? Is Damien the person to contact? And I, and many others, don't see deactivating the grip safety as a big deal since there are variations without one like the Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 Thinking about it, this isn't the official rules page and the last thing I want to do is start a controversy, I just want to shoot the Cup one last time. I'll figure out something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Ross, The only safety that you can do away with is firing pin block on a Smith by using another slide.Same with a Colt with the series 80.It was said that the 1911 was designed with a grip safety so it better have one. I would suggest a Witness or a Tangfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Kevin, Lets for 5 minutes pretend that I like to stir it up a little. Earlier versions of what became the 1911 did not have Grip Safeties, the Grip Safety was added by one department of the Military, just in case someone did not take a proper grip of the firearm when used under pressure. Making a "1911" style frame without the grip safety would be more like the original design than not. In fact the 1905 was modified for the second round of testing as it was originally sent in without the grip safety and passed all tests in that configuration, the only other US company to get through also did not have a grip safety, Savage 1905, but was at least a high cap gun in 32 and 38. Simply the 1911 is a derivative of the 1902, which is the original 38ACP cartridge handgun (that which we tend to use) and then the 1905 (which was called the 1905 Military Model 45ACP). I would be dead keen on writing down that my handgun is a 1902 / 05 instead of 1911, actually mine is so far from the mechanical operation of a 1911, it really is a new design. Considering the constant flow of modifications since 1898 when Mr Browning first put carbon to papyrus for what would become the 1902, I am not sure that we can really call it a 1911 style handgun at all really. In reality what we use and what the NRA say is a 1911, has about as much resemblance to a 1911 as a current style NASCAR race car does to the road going vehicle it reputedly looks like. So other than the high capacity mags, wide plastic grip frame, ambi safety, wide long metal rail system, barrel location device, barricade wings, scope mount, mover base, prone pad, compensator, extended ejector, my gun look just like a Military Issue 1911. You can barely tell them apart. My next project was to be a fully integrated grip enhancer / main spring housing, with Italian style adjustable mainspring screw. So I have a modern iteration of Colt 1905 in 38Super, prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 We tried a similar approach when they forced the grip safety rule on us. Simple solution, when asked the model of gun at the safety check have them write 1905 instead of 1911! Then watch their minds explode!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Just what I was thinking. Or make a new gun up. Or seeing as they usually can't tell the difference between crap and smelly clay, don't tell them anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 If you don't tell them anything then they'll write 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Goodness, really, surely not, no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Hello R. You just can't not try, can you.??!!! Please let us all know how it works out for you, I would be very interested to know. Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Richard, I like your analysis. It does hit the point. However, doesn.t there have to be a run of 500 before a gun is considered factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I have a series 80 frame and a slide marked with series 80 but the hole for the spring in the slide is welded up. I purchased it that way. does that mean I have to drill out the hole and put the safety stuff back in? What makes my slide any different than a slide not made with the hole for the firing pin block. If I drill it out to put the firing pin block back in and make a mistake in location could that make the gun unsafe? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfieldshooter Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 David I have seen that frame of yours and it looks like it needs some work on it . I would suggest some lightening cuts or serrations along the sides. Whoops ! Where did the 'Series 80' stamp go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Already ahead of you. Right now the gun needs a barrel (clark cut) and I am going to modify the slide and fix it up to be a backup gun for sydney. she shoots 38 super and louis has a new gun this year so his old gun is his backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Dave, No such thing as a factory gun in Open or Metallic. You can chop chunks of a block of steel and put your name on it and it is legal. There is a minimum number to be made for production and there was in Standard Class years ago. I thought it was 1000 if a US based company and 500 if not, very happy to be corrected on any of that. Russel, Wont get that sorted for this Cup, but have plans drawn for next years (if there is one ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Well I solved the problem in an effective if crude way. NRA refs approved so now just shooting ahead. I was a bit surprised they didn't weigh the trigger I thought that was a big deal now too. Look s like decent weather going to enjoy the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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