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Burris XTR II 1-8 or Vortex Razor HD II 1-6


Longshot83

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I've been shooting 3 gun for 3-4 years now. Started with an MTAC scope then upgraded to the Burris XTR II 1-5. I have since added a second 3 gun rifle to my collection and need a scope for my 18" gun. I am torn between the XTR 1-8 and the razor 1-6. Cost is relatively close and weight is close. The center dots ar the same size (SFP Burris).

I have had two failures with my XTR II 1-5, illumination failed, Burris replaced the scope, and now it has littl blacks specs all over the inside of th glass. The scope is currently being replaced again. This makes me a little hesitant to try another XTR II product.

What is the general consensus?

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I found the VX6 1-6 to be much closer in Price to the XTR II 1-8. The HD Razor was close to 30% more for the JM-1 reticle which is the hot ticket. Did I miss a good sale on the Razor somewhere? The Leupold is also a LOT lighter than the other two.

When checking Optics Planet on the XTR II 1-8, the deliver dates look quicker for the second focal plane unit and the 1st focal plane unit is substantially delayed in comparison.

I was just wondering today if he XTR 1-8 is worth between 40 to 50% more than the XTR II 1-5???

I've been following these types of discussions for a while now, while shopping for a new AR at the same time. I will be reading the answers here from others with great interest.

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last year I got the Vortex Razor seeing its talked about so much. No doubt quality glass from Japan. The Razor is BIG and HEAVY and while bright Im not in love with the reticle design. I also like you started with the Burris MTAC and find myself going back to it more and more for local matches that are no longer than 150 yards.

Currently I am running the Burris XTR II 1-5 as well without issues. Hopefully seeing we are on parallel paths I dont run into the same problems your having. I honestly dont feel that there is anything I cant do with the Burris that the Razor can. I like the reticle much better in the Burris and find it faster.

If my rifle was really about longer shots I would wait to look at the Burris 1-8 before I bought the Vortex. For me and these aging eyes at 600 I would want the extra 2x. I am not a fan of the Burris 1.5-8 x at all and was disappointed with the glass in those I looked through when they first came to market.

With the Burris warranty I will for sure own a 1-8 when they are released. I'am also running three 5-25 XTR II and have to say they are probably the best scope for the money currently out there in that class. Seems like Burris is now watching and reacting to market trends and demands faster than most IMO.

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The Vortex with the JM reticle is probably the easiest, most intrinsically easy reticle to use. Zero it at 200 yards and the BDC is basically right on within an inch or two out to 600 yards with most loads used in 3-gun. The clarity is second to none and it is built tank strong. With a lifetime warranty that rivals Dillon's you can't go wrong. Clarity is worth a few X in my book!

Edited by kurtm
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+1 on what Kurt said on clarity. I compared a Swarovski at 6X versus a Mk4 Leupold at 9x and the Swarovski was far superior despite the lower magnification, and that is not to say the Leupold was bad glass...

Mick

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FFP or SFP is just as tough of a question as which scope maker or brand. Before I can really decide I need more time looking through them. I did give them the quick once over at SHOT. I didnt really like the the FFP with that big circle in it. I wish the circle would have been sized to disappear at full magnification. For 3 Gun only where I want true 1x and max power I am favoring the SFP. The hold overs are really worthless other than that.

Outside of the speed of 3 gun I may consider the FFP. Have you been unhappy with the reticle in your XTR II ?

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I have yet to see a FFP reticle that you can even begin to see"your holds" at less than 4x. So assuming you have a 1-6X you only have 3 powers of magnification where the reticle does any good at all. I agree with a FFP scope for a precision rifle where the magnification is great enough that you can easily see the "holds" of the reticle, but for 1-6X, or even 1-8X a FFP reticle is akin to a screen door on a submersible. The second focal plain scope is what is needed.

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I agree with Kurt on FFP and 4x and under

I really like the Steiner TX5i 1-5 and it's probably my favorite overall.

I should have the Minox 1-8 showing up later today, anxious to try it out

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I have yet to see a FFP reticle that you can even begin to see"your holds" at less than 4x. So assuming you have a 1-6X you only have 3 powers of magnification where the reticle does any good at all. I agree with a FFP scope for a precision rifle where the magnification is great enough that you can easily see the "holds" of the reticle, but for 1-6X, or even 1-8X a FFP reticle is akin to a screen door on a submersible. The second focal plain scope is what is needed.

Kurt, have you ever heard of anyone in a match turning their power from 1 to 6 on a stage and then shooting their SFP optic for their holds only to find out after the stage that they only flipped the power ring to 5 or 5.5 or something other than their full power. By doing so, their holds were off?

I'm asking a real question to help me make up my mind on whether I want a FFP or SFP optic in a 1-6 or 1-8 power range.

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I have yet to see a FFP reticle that you can even begin to see"your holds" at less than 4x. So assuming you have a 1-6X you only have 3 powers of magnification where the reticle does any good at all. I agree with a FFP scope for a precision rifle where the magnification is great enough that you can easily see the "holds" of the reticle, but for 1-6X, or even 1-8X a FFP reticle is akin to a screen door on a submersible. The second focal plain scope is what is needed.

Kurt, have you ever heard of anyone in a match turning their power from 1 to 6 on a stage and then shooting their SFP optic for their holds only to find out after the stage that they only flipped the power ring to 5 or 5.5 or something other than their full power. By doing so, their holds were off?

I'm asking a real question to help me make up my mind on whether I want a FFP or SFP optic in a 1-6 or 1-8 power range.

I did this- ONCE. FNH a few years ago, the stage at the log cabin had 6 or so steel from 100-200, grouped just far enough apart from each other I thought I'd really have an advantage by running my Bushnell 1-6.5 at 4x so I could see a wider FOV on the close stuff. I use a 200 yard zero, so I didn't have to worry about any hold on these targets. I rolled through these pretty quick, transitioned to the 400 yard target, held 2 mils, and sent about 10 + rounds without connecting. Finally I realized I had 2.5x more magnification available, cranked it over, and next round was a hit.

It could have been position, could have been bad trigger presses, wind, humidity, barometric pressure, Coriolis effect, gyroscopic deflection..... But I blame it on the scope. And I've never done it again. Experience is the best teacher, right?

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I found this post very interesting and it prompts the question: Even though you are using it currently, and you have all three, which one would you pick if you could only own one?

Having owned none of those three, I would still guess the Swarovski, but will find your answer interesting.

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I found this post very interesting and it prompts the question: Even though you are using it currently, and you have all three, which one would you pick if you could only own one?

Having owned none of those three, I would still guess the Swarovski, but will find your answer interesting.

The Primary Arms because of the 1-8 capability and FFP reticle. Its heavier than the Swaro by a lot but I think overall it gives me an edge if the match has longer shots. Plus the Swaro warranty has expired and the PA is a life time warranty.

Pat

Edited by Alaskapopo
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  • 3 weeks later...

The newer Zeiss V8 1-8x30 and Swarovski Z8i 1-8x24 are also very good. I have the Zeiss with ASC+ BDC. Picture quality is better than Razor HDII which is not bad either. Wish they had a more tactical reticle though.

Swaro Z8i with its light weight, 30mm tube and BRT-I reticle will probaly be THE reference scope for the high end 3Gun scopes.

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Recent news pushes back the Burris XTR ii 1-8, to July or Aug now. They said they were focusing on filling backorders of current product before launching a new one :yawn:

Is there an optics company that makes an announced delivery date and actually hits their original target date without at least 3 revised pushback dates before it really releases?

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I just got the PA 1-8 FFP with ACSS reticle like Alaskapopo is talking about. Not much I don't like about it, other than being very heavy! Great optis. And yes, the hold overs aren't much good at less than 4x, but for longer range you'll be cranking up the power anyway. Also, the eye box is pretty critical at 8x, but you can drop down an x or 2 and still have your hold overs. Overall it's a great scope.

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Another vote for Vortex Razor 1-6. I know my holds out to 600 with my loads, so usually do not have issues. My issues are usually wind related, hard to guess them on the fly in the county I shoot in. Constantly shifting winds.

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  • 8 months later...

Now that the Burris XTR II 1-8x is out, does anyone have an accurate comparison between these 2?  I have the Vortex 1-6 Razor JM-1 and the Leupold VX-6 Multigunner 1-6x CM-R2 with similar reticles to the Burris Ballistic Circle Dot Reticle.  The FFP combined with the extra magnification seems like the perfect combination to stay accurate between powers and still have field of vision. I'm just wondering if anyone has cranked it to 8x and found the reticle to cover too much of the target at 400+ yards.

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On 4/11/2016 at 10:56 AM, kurtm said:

I have yet to see a FFP reticle that you can even begin to see"your holds" at less than 4x. So assuming you have a 1-6X you only have 3 powers of magnification where the reticle does any good at all. I agree with a FFP scope for a precision rifle where the magnification is great enough that you can easily see the "holds" of the reticle, but for 1-6X, or even 1-8X a FFP reticle is akin to a screen door on a submersible. The second focal plain scope is what is needed.

Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner. My sentiments exactly. Also agree with everything you said earlier about the Vortex with the JM1  reticle. 

Edited by DanL
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If you're considering a FFP scope, Trijicon just released their 1-8 Accupower and from what I hear from my local shop, they are FLYING off the shelves for very good reason. I absolutely love mine as it checks all the boxes I had on my list. Very clear glass with a true 1x which my eye cannot distinguish distortion even at the very edge of the tube. The segmented circle reticle is very nice at 1x with brightness settings that truly go to "11." I have used this in the bright Texas sun. The first focal plane reticle on 8x is very nice as well. The reticle lines are thin while still being quickly usable and do not obscure realistic sized 3 gun targets by any means. As was previously mentioned, holds only really become usable at ~4-5x for 1-n variable power scopes and the Trijicon is no different. However, I'm fine with this because that's still more range of accurate holds than a SFP scope. I can think of a few stages in recent memory that had Skinny Sammies at ~100-150 yards with larger targets at 200-400 yards where I didn't necessarily need 8x or even 6x magnification for the long shots, but I did need the field of view to quickly pick up the Sammies. 

 

The weight of the Trijicon is on the higher end but it is still just slightly less than the Vortex 1-6 even though the Trijicon uses a 34 mm tube. You could bludgeon someone to death with the Trijicon. The construction is definitely Trijicon solid including the turrets are locking and feel ridiculously solid. The larger tube also gives me some wiggle room in my head position on 8x when some evil match director gives me a really, really bad shooting position. I'm sold on this scope so much so that I'll be buying a 2nd one soon because at the price these are selling for I can buy 2. 

 

I've used, owned or borrowed several other scopes including a Kahles k16i (my 2nd favorite now), Vortex HDii 1-6, Burris XTRII 1-5 and a Leupold VX6 1-6. The Kahles is obviously top of the line. Is the glass better than the Trijicon 1-8? Maybe? I can't tell any significant difference but someone with more experience than I have said he could see maybe a slight (2-5% out of 100%) difference. They are two different scopes and someone might prefer the SFP reticle of the Kahles and be willing to pay $500 more for those differences. I'll be buying another Trijicon. As for the Vortex, the GenII HD has obviously been a huge percent of the 3 gun market for good reason. I think the Trijicon will take over that spot simply because for a nearly identical price, you get clearer glass with higher magnification in a better package. I initially loved the Burris but have since shied away from the XTRII 1-5. Maybe the 1-8 will address some of the shortcomings of the 1-5, specifically the reticle size and glass clarity.

 

I'll be buying a 2nd Trijicon. 

 

 

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