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Who would you have take the shot?


GregSmith

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

This is good conversation, and I have to agree with many here that I would pick a top PRS shooter. They are self-motivated to dedicate a ton of time shooting, reloading, researching and putting in the work without getting paid for it. You know that they are dedicated to the max and doing everything they can to get the absolute edge in their performance. That's just a special breed.

 

I will also note (good or bad) that the PRS guys are easily one of the most anal retentive, data driven, and dedicated classes of shooters out there. The barriers of entry are very steep, the learning curve is very steep, and you have to be not only a reloader, but a really, really good precision style reloader at that. You can't just get your Dillon 650 dialed in and pump out 400rds/hr. This is painstaking, meticulous and grueling at times.

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1 hour ago, b2948kevin said:

This is good conversation, and I have to agree with many here that I would pick a top PRS shooter. They are self-motivated to dedicate a ton of time shooting, reloading, researching and putting in the work without getting paid for it. You know that they are dedicated to the max and doing everything they can to get the absolute edge in their performance. That's just a special breed.

 

I will also note (good or bad) that the PRS guys are easily one of the most anal retentive, data driven, and dedicated classes of shooters out there. The barriers of entry are very steep, the learning curve is very steep, and you have to be not only a reloader, but a really, really good precision style reloader at that. You can't just get your Dillon 650 dialed in and pump out 400rds/hr. This is painstaking, meticulous and grueling at times.

I don't know enough PRS shooters to disagree with you but I was surprised to find the group of guys I know are the opposite of bench rest type loaders. I asked about bullet weighing, sorting and pointing, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole de-burring and case sorting by weight. I got laughed at and was told when your shooting from some really retarded positions the difference between .6 moa ammo and .2 moa ammo means nothing. It sounded like they loaded practice ammo on Dillons and match ammo on single stages but didn't beleive it made any real difference in scores.

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Hmm... That hasn't been my experience. The guys I shoot PRS with are super meticulous. Bullet pointing, neck turning, annealing, weight sorting, the whole nine yards. Common thought around these guys is that if you're in that weird position taking a shot, and you don't have your loads dialed you'll always wonder if if was you, or your load.

 

Regardless though, hats off to people with skills. I am pretty decent, but I learn or re-learn where I am weak in every match :). Sometimes it's my loads, most of the time, it's just me making dumb mistakes.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/2/2017 at 12:42 AM, b2948kevin said:

Hmm... That hasn't been my experience. The guys I shoot PRS with are super meticulous. Bullet pointing, neck turning, annealing, weight sorting, the whole nine yards. Common thought around these guys is that if you're in that weird position taking a shot, and you don't have your loads dialed you'll always wonder if if was you, or your load.

 

Regardless though, hats off to people with skills. I am pretty decent, but I learn or re-learn where I am weak in every match :). Sometimes it's my loads, most of the time, it's just me making dumb mistakes.

 

Tell those guys to spend less time reloading and more time shooting and their scores will improve. PRS rifles typically shoot 1/2" or better at 100 yards with 10 or less stand deviation. This is not hard to accomplish with decent equipment at the reloading bench. I hate reloading and shoot PRS. I spend at little time there as possible and I can tell you right now when I miss its not the ammo or reloading, bullet sorting, brass sorting, primer weighing (lol), etc....

 

To add to this conversation, guys like Payne, Horner and a couple other AMU guys would be awesome picks, however I think Dave Preston, Justin Vinyard, Jake Vibbert, Matt Brousseau and the A-Team (Allen's) like would be better picks.

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For a shot based on showing up, taking the shot and walking away.. PRS shooter.


For anything that is physically demanding, under adverse conditions, .mil shooter.

 

I learned my lesson at LRI.   Rain is pouring down, weather sucks, most of the hobbyist shooters were off their game, all the guys that were marine snipers shrugged it off.    If toughness needs to be factored into having a clean shot when everything around you sucks.

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  • 1 month later...

So I was having this exact conversation with my dad the other day, and I was pretty firmly in the "PRS/F-Class" camp. My dad has a couple of coworkers who were military snipers (Green Beret sniper and Marine Scout Sniper), and he was decidedly in the .mil camp.

 

The one he works with now is the Marine Scout, who talks about shooting literally as much and as frequently as they wanted. On a normal day they could shoot a case or more ammo through their rifles, like it was just no thing. On bigger training days they would have their ammo delivered to the range in a truck. I'm guessing he probably shot more than the average sniper, as he was a hunter and big gun guy that loved shooting before he went in to the military, but it does prove a point to some degree: if you want to, you can shoot up a whole lot of ammo, to the point that it would be unattainable for even the dudes with ammo sponsors. 

 

So at this point I am a bit more undecided than I was before. I'm still leaning towards PRS shooters, but it makes you think. 

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2 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

I've yet to see or hear of a sniper that shot truckloads of ammo at tiny targets from shitty positions. That's worth way more than a semi truck load of ammo all shot at silhouettes from prone.

Absolutely, much smaller amounts of actually good practice can be more than worth a ton of bad practice. Which is why I am still leaning in the PRS direction. But if you are averaging 1000 rounds of rifle a week that has to help haha. 

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  • 5 months later...

Haven't seen them mentioned yet so I'll throw this one out there.

 

In all my time in the military and all my time on military rifle ranges (which was quite a lot), often with operators of every stripe, the dudes who would show up, take a quick look around, then lay down and crank off a bullseye Every. Single. Time. were the snipers from the Special Response Teams. They guard nuclear facilities. For quite a while the SRT guys were winning all the SWAT competitions like it was easy.

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On 4/8/2016 at 6:21 AM, shooterDrew said:

Totally dependent on the target. If you're shooting paper I'd say top competitive shooter without hesitation. If you're talking about a life or death shot where a human life is taken then I'd default to top military sniper. The stress added when a life hangs in the balance is dramatic and a military sniper has trained and mentally prepared for taking a life and that stress is potentially going to take less of a toll on the results.

The absolute best competitive shooter in the world, skill wise, simply may not be mentally capable or prepared to take a shot on another human being.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This is the key part for any soldier, sniper or rifleman. We give them the best, most realistic, and difficult training, but until they  aim at another human being and have to take the shot. None of them will know for sure what he/she will do. The jump from a paper target to a living human being with families and plans for the future is so long that many people just can't do it. Back to the original question, if I had to pick someone who could complete a mission that would probably require the demise of an enemy, I'd choose the one who has already done it. I hate sending a backup team in to complete the mission and try to find what's left of the original operative.

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