loaded 40 with buldge behind the bullet

[CrashDodson]

It is range brass. I switched the stem back to round and that seems a little better. They do chamber. But you can see and feel a slight buldge that's only on one side of the case below the bullet. Doesn't go all the way around.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[CrashDodson]

Out of 500 tonight I had 150 that wouldn't pass the shock bottle....out of those 20 wouldn't chamber the barrel. Don't know if 20 out of 500 is acceptable or not.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Chillywig]

That's not too bad. I use a dillon case gauge to check my reloads. In 40 cal I would have at least that many that did not make it past the case gauge. I would guess around 5 per 100 do not pass the gauge from my pile of range picked up/ once fired brass. I am shooting these reloads in a STI edge. Typically I will save all these fails and shoot them at the end of a practice session. They will all nearly chamber perfectly in this gun and they normally all go bang like there was nothing abnormal about these rounds.

I have a 9mm open gun with a KKM barrel. If these fail the case gauge I just throw them away. Major power factor and if they fail the case gauge they do not chamber in this gun.

I am sure everyone's guns will react differently to a round that has failed the case gauge.

[fishsticks]

Out of 500 tonight I had 150 that wouldn't pass the shock bottle....out of those 20 wouldn't chamber the barrel. Don't know if 20 out of 500 is acceptable or not.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

For me maybe 1/100 or 1/200 that won't fit in my barrel is about the max I'd put up with.

For 40, I dry tumble then run through a redding pass through to clean up any bulged brass. Hit with one-shot and into the 550. Dies in the 550 are all redding, but I think ultimately the u-die in station 1 is where I'll end up.

Using 180 gr bayou coated and range brass maybe 1/500 fails both gauge and barrel and often that is because of split brass.

For 9mm all is the same except no pass through sizing.

Bottom line with the failure rates you're seeing I would think making some changes in set-up would be suggested.

[CrashDodson]

I'm wondering If the u die is the problem. I got the u die because I didn't want to mess with a bulge buster. I'm now seeing split cases after seating....I have never seen a split case before the u die. I can carefully set the bullet as straight as possible and I still get the buldge. I have tried little flare to a crazy amount and it doesn't seem to help. Maybe this stepped Mr bullet funnel will help.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[CrashDodson]

I have read some others having a similar issue. some say the lee FCD helps remove the bulge....others say dont use the FCD.....some say get a better seating die like the redding.

[inline4]

I'm having the same problem with the same exact bullets as the op.

I wonder if the bullets are somehow the cause?

I've tried all Dillon dies, tried the egw u-die, tried the daa powder funnel (which made the problem worse and was shaving bullets).

I've even run the finished rounds through a Redding grx, and even that didn't always work.

cases all gauge fine after resizing, and they gauge fine upside down.

I'm gonna try a Redding competition seating and crimping dies next, and if that doesn't work, I'll try another brand of coated bullets or give up on coated altogether.

[CrashDodson]

I'm having the same problem with the same exact bullets as the op.

I wonder if the bullets are somehow the cause?

I've tried all Dillon dies, tried the egw u-die, tried the daa powder funnel (which made the problem worse and was shaving bullets).

I've even run the finished rounds through a Redding grx, and even that didn't always work.

cases all gauge fine after resizing, and they gauge fine upside down.

I'm gonna try a Redding competition seating and crimping dies next, and if that doesn't work, I'll try another brand of coated bullets or give up on coated altogether.

I just ordered the powder funnel earlier this week :/

Mine all gauge fine upside down, I think the bullet is not seating straight or the brass is weaker on one side of the casing which results in the seating pressure pushing the bullet out more on one side of the case. From what I have read brass is not going to have uniform thickness, especially once+ fired range brass. So we are shoving this bullet in there and the weakest/thinnest part of the wall gives and the bullet pushes out causing the bulge and seated bullet that is not straight.

I wonder if going to a .400 instead of the .401 would make any difference? With the U die sizing the case down tighter using a smaller diameter bullet may help? I measured the bullets and they all measure .401 out of a dozen or so I measured. I tried blue bullets and the coating they use is not as good in my opinion. After loading my hands are blue and there is blue stuff in my seating die. I have never had that problem with ibejiheads. I know there are many others out there as well that may be good.

[zzt]

Crash..., that may be a good idea. I went to .400" with Rainier plated bullets and a brand of coated bullets, also .400". With the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel/expander and the .400" bullets I had one round out of the last 500 Rainiers that did not pass the EGW chamber gauge. That was not the case with .401 lubed lead or poly coated bullets.

[CrashDodson]

I made another 400 last night. I started by loosening the lock ring on all the dies. I had a case in each station and raised the ram and then tightened down the lock rings. I ran the press slower than usual and ended up with 20-30 that wouldn't pass the gauge and 4 that wouldn't chamber in the barrel. I'm still getting a bulge on one side of the case but not as bad on as many cases. I had about 5 times where the primer got seated side ways and a few times it wouldn't pick up a primer at all. Not sure what's up with that. I cleaned the bar and replaced the seating assembly from the spares kit and it ran well after that.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[jtrump]

I had the exact same problem with the same bullets guys.... I had to specifically order them to .400 and EVEN then if you mike them they will be .401 and some even .402.. ALSO I noticed the coating is not symmetrical, just hold the bullet up and look at the back of it straight on, or mike the tail end of the bullet and turn it.. That many not fitting is unacceptable. I used range brass also and called the company about the problem, the next batch I got seemed to work better when having them sized smaller but the bulge on one side of the brass still persisted leaving me to believe the bullet just is not a perfect circle and there is more material left on one side than the other.

FWIW: I can get bayou's to work fine in 9mm, but in .40 they were always a problem.. so I switched to JHP from zero and every single round plunks like a dream.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jtrump

[ghost21]

First - if cases are sticking on the powder/expander funnel, forget the 1000 sandpaper Get the dremel and polish it to a mirror shine, I have did that with everyone of mine on all 550s Not one problem sticking cases

Second- Bullet sounds like it has thicker coating on one side of the bullet ,bullet to big in size or a combination

Third - Graphite is your friend ! Take the primer assembly apart coat all sliding parts with a coat of graphite using a Q-tip then reassemble

If the Mr. Bullet funnel doesn't fix the problem ,then I would switch back to jacketed or plated bullets or try another brand of coated bullets

Just my 2 cents

[fishsticks]

I made another 400 last night. I started by loosening the lock ring on all the dies. I had a case in each station and raised the ram and then tightened down the lock rings. I ran the press slower than usual and ended up with 20-30 that wouldn't pass the gauge and 4 that wouldn't chamber in the barrel. I'm still getting a bulge on one side of the case but not as bad on as many cases. I had about 5 times where the primer got seated side ways and a few times it wouldn't pick up a primer at all. Not sure what's up with that. I cleaned the bar and replaced the seating assembly from the spares kit and it ran well after that.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Stupid question--are you sure you have the right shell plate and locator pins in? And that there isn't excessive play in the tool head?

I just ran several hundred 40 S&W using range brass and bayou 180 gr coated today on my 550. They all gauged easily.

Thinking about this thread while reloading today made me wonder about the shell plate and tool head.

[CrashDodson]

I ordered the kit from brian. How can I identify the shell plate? The locator pins are number 2

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[CrashDodson]

If I push around on the tool head there is slight movement...very slight.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[CrashDodson]

I use the same shell plate and number 3 locators for 9mm and don't have any trouble. Same brand of bullets

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Edited April 9, 2016 by CrashDodson

[fishsticks]

If I push around on the tool head there is slight movement...very slight.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That's about right.

I looked in the manual and here's the proper parts for 40

#5 shell plate (shared with 9mm)

"W" powder funnel (9mm uses "F")

#2 locator pins (9mm uses #3)

So unless you have the wrong powder funnel, all appears well with that part.

How about the shell plate adjustment? Any chance it worked loose?

The Dillon seat die is just that, a seater. So in theory if everything is properly adjusted it should seat bullets centered every time.

Here's where I'm headed with all this---if the bullets are seating off center something is causing it, the question is what?

If the shell plate is properly adjusted the next place I'd go is replacing the seat die. Or, at least call Dillon.

Edited April 9, 2016 by fishsticks

[jtrump]

I use the same shell plate and number 3 locators for 9mm and don't have any trouble. Same brand of bullets

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

try using one of the number 3 pins for the powder station on the .40, I found it made it a little easier on my life my with my press anyway.

[zzt]

I'll say again, the problem is more likely to be the quality of the brass and not starting seating with the bullet perpendicular. I'll use 45ACP as an example, because the brass is softer and thinner. It is also larger and makes problems much easier to see than on 9mm or 40.

If you didn't buy your brass new, you don't know what it has been shot in. A lot of guns out there have loosey goosey chambers. The cartridge lays on the bottom of the chamber. When fired it expands to fill the chamber, but it does not expand symmetrically. The brass already touching the bottom of the chamber wall has no where to go, so it isn't expanded. The top of the case and to a lesser extent the sides are expanded. How much depends on how tight or loose the chamber is. The looser they are, the more the brass is stretched unevenly. When you resize that brass you are squeezing it back down to the correct size, but you are moving material more on one side than the other. That work hardens the brass a little, so the side that got squeezed the least is softer. If you put a bullet in the case mouth expanded brass and it does not sit straight up and down, you may have a problem with this soft-on-one-side brass. I certainly did.

I bought my 45ACP brass once-fired. I picked more up on the range. I often had the exact problem Crash describes, and I decided to get to the bottom of it. I mostly load LSWC in 45. I replaced the Dillon seater stem with a custom one that was hollow in the center. It seated the bullet by pushing on the wad cutter part, not the nose. With a generous bell, it significantly reduced the number of bulged rounds. It was still a problem, but not anywhere near as bad as when I loaded LTC bullets. For them I had to use one of the Dillon seaters.

I was having the same problem loading 40. I bought a Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel for that and it helped immensely. More on that later. So, I bought one for 45, adjusted it, and the problem virtually disappeared. I made certain that the bullet was sitting inside the case in the well the stepped expanded funnel made, and it was perpendicular. I use only Remington brass for my target rounds. It has the thinnest walls of any of the leading cases, so if there is going to be a problem it will show up there. With the mixed headstamp brass I use for non-bullseye competitions, I still get a higher rejection rate.

One note on the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel. I started with the same amount of belling that I had previously used and found it did not work. After the bullet was crimped, a very slight bulge remained all around the case just under the crimp. It would cause the round to fail in the EGW chamber checker. Reducing the bell to the barest minimum eliminated the problem.

Now back to 40. Most of the once-fired brass you get has been fired at Police and public ranges by people shooting plastic guns. I don't have anything against plastic guns, except they have loose chambers for the most part. You would expect that in a gun designed for combat. Also, some of the older ones had unsupported chambers, and they weren't all Glocks. So you start out at a disadvantage with 40 brass. I started by buying 3000 once-fired Police range brass from a Detective. Never again! So many of them were Glocked it was pathetic. Also, many of them had crimped primers and those are a pain in the neck. I minimized the problem by chamber checking every single round. Anything that failed the EGW gauge got put in the practice pile. Everything else went into the match pile. The practice rounds were fired and the brass discarded. Subsequent reloads of the "match brass" worked fine, with very few rejects.

Up until recently, I had been loading lead for 40. I decided to try the poly coated bullets. I tried several brands and the failure rate increased with all of them. Some more so than others, but all more often that lead. I did find that the coated bullets sized to .400" were better in that regard than those sized to .401". Recently I decided to try Open (yes, with 40). I knew from past experience that lead bullets and comps don't mix. Since I was worried about the coated bullets, I decided to try plated. The third manufacturer I tried was Rainier. Their plated bullets are swaged to .400" and are very uniform. I just finished loading 1100 rounds using the Rainiers. I checked every one in the gauge and I had exactly one round that did not drop all the way to the bottom.

So the combination of the Mr. Bulletfeeder expander/funnel, using only known good brass and the Rainier .400" bullets completely cured the problem. I only have about half of the original brass left. I'm sure I'll have to go through the same process with the 4000 I subsequently bought.

Edited April 9, 2016 by zzt

[mjohn]

If I push around on the tool head there is slight movement...very slight.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That's about right.

I looked in the manual and here's the proper parts for 40

#5 shell plate (shared with 9mm)

"W" powder funnel (9mm uses "F")

#2 locator pins (9mm uses #3)

So unless you have the wrong powder funnel, all appears well with that part.

How about the shell plate adjustment? Any chance it worked loose?

The Dillon seat die is just that, a seater. So in theory if everything is properly adjusted it should seat bullets centered every time.

Here's where I'm headed with all this---if the bullets are seating off center something is causing it, the question is what?

If the shell plate is properly adjusted the next place I'd go is replacing the seat die. Or, at least call Dillon.

My 650 manual states W shell plate and my 40 cal die kit has a W shell plate.

Here is a link.................

http://thegunwiki.com/apps/calconversion/showconvparts.asp?convid=3

Edited April 9, 2016 by mjohn

[fishsticks]

The ultimate solution for "Glocked" 40 brass is roll sizing through a Case Pro. Since many of us lack the financial umph to go that route the Redding GRX pass through die works too, but doesn't do anything for the extractor groove.

Honestly, I don't think that's the issue the OP has, but it might be. I don't think this is the issue since flipping the rounds and gauging them primer down allows them to fit.

[Nickb45]

I've been fighting this same issue on my 550 using Bayou Bullets. I thought maybe it was the seat die not getting along with the bullets, a couple friends are running the same bullets without issue and using Hornady stuff. So I decided to try a Hornady seat side, the cone shape insert left rings on the bullet so I used the flat side. Still ending up with crooked bullets.

After reading this, I think I will try the mr bullet feeder powder funnel.

One thing I did try tonight was pulling the decapping rod out of my size die and running a few finished rounds through it. They fit the shock bottle gauge after that, I will pull the bullets and see what they look like tomorrow, then Chrono/accuracy test them. I really don't want to have to run 25% (about my failure rate for the shock bottle gauge) of my rounds back through the size die.

[CrashDodson]

ive been loading 9 for a bit and have not had a chance to try the funnel yet. I will let you know how it goes.

[Nickb45]

I will have a funnel on Thursday. I also grabbed a lee FCD. If I need to use the FCD, I will throw it in the lathe and open up the carbide ring .001 or .002 since I'm loading lead.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nickb45]

This is what 25-30% are looking like.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk