Just bought a xl650 for my first reloader

[Yibomb]

I just bought a XL650,9mm dies, primmer flip tray from Dillon a few days ago. It is supposed to be at my house in a few days.

I am currently reading FAQ and 9mm/38 threads and trying to get as much info as i can before i start buying powder,bullets, and primmer.

I shoot a 5" M&P CORE W/ Vortex Viper red dot. Currently shoot in CO, so minor 125 power factor is what I am interested in. I have been talking to a master shooter and he said 124gn bullet would be ideal to make minor sense it will take less powder to make the 125pf.

I want to try to get the softest shooting loads while being reliable. I have a screw in my Scaphoid( wrist bone behind the thumb) on my strong hand.

BULLETS! I have searched Bear Creek Moly, Montana Gold, Xtream, Bayou, Percision Delta, Black Bullets, Blue Bullets, Zero, Acme, Berrys, and Everglades. I noticed the moly bullets and some others were much cheaper than copper plated and was wondering if the copper plated was worth the extra. Also had a question about the difference in heavy plate concave base and round nose? I am leaning towards Xtream 124 RN for $39 for 500. It will be my first purchase so I will be getting free shipping. Just waiting for them to have a 5% sale on 124gn bullets so I can buy a few thousand.

POWDER! I have done some research and looked at posted load data. I found out there was certain powders used by many shooters; TiteGroup, Bullzeye, Unique, 320, Clays, WST and HP-38. First property of the powder I want is soft shooting. Next is cost, and how it fills.

PRIMMERS! Federal small pistol seems to be everyones go to, but is very hard to find in stock anywhere. CCI is my next choice. Because of the Hazardous material shipping charge I would prefer to buy Powder and Primmers locally form a shop or individual.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Yibomb

[Youngeyes]

Is the 650 the first press you've owned to reload? If so, you've got a big learning curve. You need to pick a powder and bullet and start to experiment. Go slow, read a lot and follow the book. Do you know someone who reloads with a 650? That would be the best way to learn. Can I assume that you have a set of calipers and scale? If you can give us some idea of your reloading skill level and tools? You'l get a more complete answer. Go slow and load safe.

[Sandbagger123]

lots of questions.

if you want the best bullet it MG . buy it by the case and its not much more than the others. Xtremes are finicky sometimes and might not work well with your gun. if you want soft shooting then go to 147gr . don't even think of moly. they are old tech taken over now by coated. Coated is good for the price, but sometimes they vary weight wise.

powder? almost all you listed will work. you will most likely find TG and n320 and WST at adventure sports or cabelas of that place in bellingham. for me the best is n320.

primers? go winchester . they work great in all my freinds 650's.

Buy powder and primers by the 4/8# and primers by the 5k case. get them from grafs or PV . you will get them cheaper than if you went local even with shipping and Hazmat. this is if you intend to shoot a lot. 1k primer and a pound of primer don't last too long. its the start of the outdoor season in the PNW and there will be matches every weekend depending if you want to drive.

i don't know what kind of reloading experience you have. if the 650 is your first machine you might ask for some help or advice on the Wa uspsa fB page. its not really rocky science for the mechanically inclined, but remember that a doulble charge or mistake might add more pins and screw to your hand.

[firewood]

Welcome to handloading which is a hobby within a hobby. You are asking about twelve 64,000 dollar questions! You may get a lot of different answers which may seem conflicting. The thing about this hobby is you have so much control over your components that you can make up for one deficiency with another component or technique.

One thing I want to say is you are getting a very nice press but do you have a good powder scale and a set of calibers?

All of the powders you list will work in 9mm. I use WST but Hodgdon doesn't recommend it in 9mm so for now you might try another. Of the powders mentioned Unique might be the hardest to work with and Bullseye the hardest to find. VV N320 is probably the best but it is also the most expensive and while not impossible to find it might be a challenge to locate. That leaves Titegroup, clays and HP-38 I use all of those and N320 for 9mm and have no complaints. But my skills as a marksman are nothing to brag about.

For bullets I use a lot of plated Xtremes, some like them some don't. I'm trying to transition to coated bullets, I have settled on Bayou Bullets. but once you get going try a few different sizes, weights and profile. You are just going to have to experiment. In 9mm a lot of IDPA and USPSA shooters use 124g but a lot use 147 so my advice is just try one and see. To make 125pf with a 147g extreme it's going to take about 3.3g titegroup maybe a little bit more but around 3.3

A plated or coated bullet will not need as much powder to make pf compared to a jacketed bullet. A heavier bullet will also required less powder to make pf than a lighter bullet. Most would agree that a heavier bullet "pushes" with respect to recoil, a lighter bullet "snaps".

For primers in my glocks I use CCIs no problems but in my revolvers It's federal because they are simply easier to set off and my DA triggers will not reliably work with CCIs. Federal are more expensive than CCI and harder to find which of course figures.

In summery just about everything you are listing someone here uses and loves and someone hates. So just try something and see what happens.

[Yibomb]

Thanks guys, I have a friend that has a 650 and has been competing and reloading for years. so I have someone to show me the ropes. He also shoots the same gun as I do so I can get baseline load data from him. Think I am buying his Lyman tumbler too.

I have never reloaded so this is all new. My first firearm purchase was in October in 2015. I started shooting USPSA matches 3 weeks ago and have been going to weekly Tuesday action matches and Sunday USPSA matches.

I know reloading is not something to be taken lightly and needs all of your focus. I work as a welder so I know if you don't treat dangerous objects with respect, typically that is when you get hurt.

I am good with my hands been working on cars/motorcycles for 10 years. I am also very detail oriented so I was interested in reloading as a hobby too. I have a digital caliper and a few postage scales from my brother. I cant wait to start reloading.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Yibomb

[Bkreutz]

Thanks guys, I have a friend that has a 650 and has been competing and reloading for years. so I have someone to show me the ropes. He also shoots the same gun as I do so I can get baseline load data from him. Think I am buying his Lyman tumbler too.

I have never reloaded so this is all new. My first firearm purchase was in October in 2015. I started shooting USPSA matches 3 weeks ago and have been going to weekly Tuesday action matches and Sunday USPSA matches.

I know reloading is not something to be taken lightly and needs all of your focus. I work as a welder so I know if you don't treat dangerous objects with respect, typically that is when you get hurt.

I am good with my hands been working on cars/motorcycles for 10 years. I am also very detail oriented so I was interested in reloading as a hobby too. I have a digital caliper and a few postage scales from my brother. I cant wait to start reloading.

John, let's talk tomorrow night at WCAN. There are a lot of different opinions about powder/bullets/primers/ and reloading equipment. Maybe I can add a few options to your list. (or at least give you some more information to consider before you make decisions).

[Targetpractice]

Typically for a softer recoil, you want a heavy bullet with a fast burning powder. N320 and titegroup are both good for that. Problem with n320 is the cost and harder to find. Problem with titegroup is there isn't much room for error. It has a small window for min/max powder charge. If your gun doesn't have any ports in the barrel or have a compensator, the powders that use a smaller powder charge typically make less gas and will create less muzzle flip. If your gun does have ports on barrel or compensator, the powders that require a higher powder charge will typically make more gas and make the compensator/ports work better for less flip. If your looking at making a soft shooting round, I would suggest even stepping up to a 147gr. Primers you are usually ok with any of them if the gun isn't modified. Guns with lighter springs tend to not like the cci primers. They are harder to ignite.

[BrianKr]

I am good with my hands been working on cars/motorcycles for 10 years. I am also very detail oriented so I was interested in reloading as a hobby too. I have a digital caliper and a few postage scales from my brother. I cant wait to start reloading.

Postage scales won't work for reloading, or did I misunderstand? You're going to weigh powder to 1/10 of a grain and a grain is 1/7000 of a pound. A letter or package is weighed in ounces; 16 of them to a pound.

Let me tell you a story, and it's a true one. I had a friend who had a family, they've since moved away. His very young son saved his money and for a first press got a Dillon 550. I warned him against the purchase, but he knew far more than I did about it. I'd only been reloading for 30 years at that point and reloading wildcats to boot. So his press came in and knowing that he knew more than I did and that it would be a waste of time for me to tell him anything I kept my mouth shut except to ask questions and maybe get him to think. He was loading .223. He bought a mess of bullets and a pound of powder and went to work loading. He ran out of those bullets and powder and went to another store and loaded all of those components up. This went on for some time. He was cranking out the ammo at a furious rate. I did ask what he using for a load and he replied, "Loads from the manual", so as to tell me to shut up. Then came time to shoot the stuff and he had pressure signs and all sorts of problems. Then he came to me to ask what was wrong. So I went through it; it took awhile. The gist of it was that I suggested that he buy a bullet puller to salvage what he could, and since the ammo used many different powders all mixed up en mass in a .50 caliber ammo can, that the powder be trashed. I know of another person locally, I've never been around him when he shoots and never want to be... he fills the cases when he reloads. Thankfully he never reloads handgun. He's a moron and everyone who knows him says that he's an accident just waiting to happen, yet they shoot near him. I don't get it. I don't even know if he has a powder scale. You do not want to be that person.

A progressive press is a terrible press to learn to load on. Even an inexpensive single stage press is better, then move to a progressive once you learn what you're doing. But I know you want to crank out ammo and my advice will be ignored. So ask plenty of questions and be very in tune to double charges. That was one thing the little arrogant brat didn't do because his loads would have overflowed the case had he double charged, but with handgun it's very easy to do that. You won't fire very many double charges of fast powder even if you load a few hundred of them; you might not get more than one touched off.

FWIW, I still use my single stage press, at times, for load development and for cartridges were I only need a few and don't want to buy a cartridge conversion. It's a wonderful press to actually learn reloading on BEFORE using a progressive.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Too, you may think safety, but you really haven't a clue as to what can go wrong. You're a welder and you know welding safety. It would be like me, as an amateur welder (I am), Stating that I'm going to buy a welder and make a container ship. (bad analogy, but you get the point) Or like the "millwright", in name alone, no training, who used a huge grinding wheel. It blew up on him and he killed himself at a local mill (true story). My point is to learn to crawl, then walk, then run. Having written that I'm sure I stepped on many toes of folks here who have progressive presses, learned reloading on them, and have so far been successful with them. That was not my intent. But I'm always someone who has to understand why something is the way it is, what can go wrong, and how not to make it go wrong. As a wildcatter I have come to respect the high pressures that we work with. Pressure is a friend, but it can get out of hand in a nanosecond.

I hope that I've impressed upon you the danger that reloading can be. Forget the postal scale and get a proper powder scale. If I haven't been successful, I hope no one is around you when you learn the hard way. I wish you nothing but the best. I hope you understand that.

Edited March 22, 2016 by BrianKr

[RiggerJJ]

GET

A

CRONO!

don't reload anything without one...

jj

[MemphisMechanic]

Lead or moly or coated will always shoot the softest.

They are softer and seal (think like a wine cork) to bore quickly and less of the powder charge bypasses the bullet. Next comes plated. Finally fully copper jacketed and JHPs.

Lead is the smokiest, then plated, then jacketed, then finally JHPs as the cleanest.

Heavier bullets shoot softer than light ones. Heavy bullets loaded slow are the hardest to stabilize - our M&Ps are well known to often have accuracy issues with 147s. I swapped to a $200 Apex custom fitted barrel due to this. But it always shot 124s just fine.

124 splits the difference between the cheaper snappier 115 and the butter soft 147s.

I personally shoot a 135gr black bullet now, and it feels just like a 147 jacketed bullet.

Powder is largely chosen now by what we can find.

I'm using Green Dot, WST, and Clays nowdays. Solo1000 is my personal favorite but I only have one 8llb jug left and it's impossible to find nowdays. So I'm dabbling with other loads for non-major matches.

Same with primers. Pick what you can get affordably. Even the harder CCIs run through an M&P just fine if you fully seat them in the 650 and haven't swapped to a lighter striker spring.

I find a 13-lb recoil spring and stock striker spring to be the ticket for running harder primers. An 11-lb spring and Winchester or Federal primers works well, but the 13/stock runs dirty, and eats it all.

I learned to load on a 650 and have never loaded a double or squib after 40k rounds. Be patient. Go over to that friends house and volunteer to load his ammo on his press while he supervises.

I've had newbies do that with me, taught them a ton in 2 hours before their press even showed up.

[racerba]

A progressive press is a terrible press to learn to load on.

I don't know why people keep saying this. If you pay attention properly...it's not that much more difficult to learn on...you just have to do (adjust) one stage at a time...similar to single stage presses...and you get going much faster once you get everything in order...

[ben b.]

I'd start the first 200 or so running one case at a time thru all stations and train your mind and attention to what is going on. After that run I'd move to continuous cases but go slow and pay attention, especially after a stoppage/problem. I started on a progressive and don't see why others can't also.

Edited March 22, 2016 by ben b.

[Hi-Power Jack]

GET

A

CRONO!

+1. $70. And a powder scale ($50).

Lots of great advice above - go slowly - don't load more than 25 -50 rounds

at a time.

Step #1 is The Plunk Test to set your OAL.

Any primers are fine, and those powders are all good.

Step #2 is to come up with a powder load, and set your powder measure

to throw that amount of powder (+/- 0.1 grain). To do that,

throw five rounds of powder and dump them back into the hopper

(make sure the hopper is at least half full), and then throw five more

charges into your powder pan - weigh them and divide by five.

E.g. five charges weigh 16 grains, each weighs 3.2 grains.

Step #3 is the "crimp" - read up on this - very important phase of reloading.

Step #4 is go out and "test" the loads - do they load thru your gun? accurate?

make the PF you have selected?

Then the fun begins, now you play with adjustments to the OAL, powder charge and

possibly crimp until you have it right where you want it.

NOW, you start reloading 50 - 100 rounds and go shoot them and re-test them.

When you have it perfect, lock everything down and start cranking .... and re-test

your OAL / powder charge once in a while.

Good luck.

[wtturn]

I am good with my hands been working on cars/motorcycles for 10 years. I am also very detail oriented so I was interested in reloading as a hobby too. I have a digital caliper and a few postage scales from my brother. I cant wait to start reloading.

A progressive press is a terrible press to learn to load on.

Nonsense.

[firewood]

Not wanting to enter the discussion regarding starting with a progressive or other type, I will say the OP mentioned that he has a friend that has experience handloading on a progressive so if the OP waits for his friend to come over and help him begin then I think he will do well.

I had thought about commenting on the postal scale also and I think it's a valid point. By the time you get a new XL650 set up and going even without a case feeder you in at some serious dollar so trying to save a few on a critical item such as a powder scale I think is a bad idea. Even a $35.00 Franklin Arsenal digital will do in a pinch but for $100.00 or so you can get a acceptable beam scale that will last a lifetime.

Again the OP is asking for opinions and advice not telling us how he is going to do things so I get the impression that he is a thoughtful individual that really isn't into taking unnecessary chances.

[GrumpyOne]

I am good with my hands been working on cars/motorcycles for 10 years. I am also very detail oriented so I was interested in reloading as a hobby too. I have a digital caliper and a few postage scales from my brother. I cant wait to start reloading.

A progressive press is a terrible press to learn to load on.

Nonsense.

I agree... While a progressive press may have a steeper learning curve, the principles of reloading remain the same, with the most important aspect being, pay attention to what you are doing.

[Yibomb]

Thanks for all the responses iam going to purchase a few thousand bullets from xtream today sense they are having a 5% sale on 9 mm bullets.

[racerba]

check out https://www.ibejiheads.com/

[ChemistShooter]

I am still pretty new at this too. I have a 550B.

My .02:In the beginning, read your manuals thoroughly and go SLOW. If something strange happens, and it will---STOP. And don't go any further until you've got it all completely figured out. Reloading isn't something where you can ignore weird things and keep going. If you have an experienced reloader close by, you are way ahead of the game.

And you will need a powder balance. A postal scale isn't even close to being accurate enough.

[Yibomb]

I just bought a digital scale for 30$ same thing as the hornady digital scale but different name. It has settings for grain,ct,gram, and oz

My Coworker who is my FFL is going to lend me some basic reloading books.

I have also almost watched every youtube video of the xl650 with 9mm.i

[ChemistShooter]

The Search function for these forums is your friend. You can find a lot of really useful information in a really short time. I have a file where I copy-and-paste useful stuff. Not just reloading, also stuff specific for your gun and match info.

[Yibomb]

Loaded some dummy rounds last week and had my friend come over and adjust the seat and crimp dies and showed me some tips. Also bought his lyman tumbler.

I missed the sale at X-tream bullets. so I went to Cabelas bought a lb of hp-38, 2000 cci primmers,and a box of 250 147gr berrys plated bullets.

I have read the hp38 is almost the same as 231 and I can compare the data loads in the lyman realoading book.

So my plan is follow the lyman book and go with 1.15-1.169 and 3.5 grains of hp38. lyman recommends 3.5 grains to get around 855fps with 147gn bullet. Might load some 3.2gr, 3.3gr, 3.4gr, and 3.5gr.

My question for the day. Can you load fired brass if it was shot it at an indoor range. I just want to load a few rounds with different powder loads just to get some down range. I overheard a GM say sometimes he just picks up his brass and skips the cleaning process.

I plan on going to harbor freight and buying corn cob or walnut shells this weekend.

[Targetpractice]

Loaded some dummy rounds last week and had my friend come over and adjust the seat and crimp dies and showed me some tips. Also bought his lyman tumbler.

I missed the sale at X-tream bullets. so I went to Cabelas bought a lb of hp-38, 2000 cci primmers,and a box of 250 147gr berrys plated bullets.

I have read the hp38 is almost the same as 231 and I can compare the data loads in the lyman realoading book.

So my plan is follow the lyman book and go with 1.15-1.169 and 3.5 grains of hp38. lyman recommends 3.5 grains to get around 855fps with 147gn bullet. Might load some 3.2gr, 3.3gr, 3.4gr, and 3.5gr.

My question for the day. Can you load fired brass if it was shot it at an indoor range. I just want to load a few rounds with different powder loads just to get some down range. I overheard a GM say sometimes he just picks up his brass and skips the cleaning process.

I plan on going to harbor freight and buying corn cob or walnut shells this weekend.

yup. You can reload any brass as long as it isn't cracked. Also, if you have an android phone, download the app called reloading assistant. It's worth atleast 20+ books worth of data.

[TANFARM]

This is a good thread. Get Brians DVD ..competitive reloading?, it is geared around the 650 and is EXCELLENT...it should be included with every press....it's a little dated but covers set up , application and safety in a big way !

I think most folks will agree.......you will be going through a learning curve. When you establish what goal you are trying to achieve ...then the different combinations of powder, projectiles , brass and primers will be a fascinating on going journey.

After 35K of 9 mm.....I've settle the on CCI small pistol, Vih. N320 powder and went through thousands of Xtreme 147 HP Bullets ......I'm slowly switching over to Montna Gold 147....... They real do perform much better in my case.

You chose a fantastic tool to start your reloading journey, good calipers, good scales, and a chronograph ......best of luck!!

[MemphisMechanic]

Go to your local pet store. They sell crushed walnut shells as bedding for lizards and other reptiles and it's cheaper than buying tumbling or blasting media.