Double Duty Open/Defense pistol?

[Rudukai13]

Ever since I discovered the shooting sports and found out about Open division pistols, I've always thought there were a lot of practical applications to many common competition modifications - Optics, magwells, perhaps even compensators if applied correctly. This is something I've been considering for quite a while, and I'd like to pose the question to the more experienced Open division shooters here;

If you were to build a pistol that had to pull double-duty as BOTH an Open division competition pistol (not necessarily built to win, but built to be competitive enough to have fun with) and a tactical/defense pistol (let's rule out concealed carry, and stick mostly to home defense or something less limiting than would need to be considered for concealment), how would you do it?

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd like to assume that you must include three major components of an Open division pistol in your theoretical build; A magwell, a red dot optic (frame or slide mounted up to you), and a compensator AND/OR ported barrel of some kind.

Other than that, I'd like to hear what everyone thinks would be the right combination for this kind of dual-use pistol.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Awesome carry optics bait!!!

[Rudukai13]

I'm not talking about carry optics because that imposes too many restrictions and doesn't allow the use of other modifications that would benefit a shooter for Open division and defensive use.

[blairmckenzie1]

To me an open gun is a high performance gun with a super light trigger, huge mags, and a booming comp.

Any one of those things on a carry gun would make it a bad carry gun to me.

It's hard to mash two different guns together when they are on such extreme ends of the spectrum.

"Competitive enough to be fun" is really up to you. I have a Cheely open gun and sometimes I have a bad enough day to not feel competitive at all...

[Kingman]

The new COSTA STI.

[Rudukai13]

Kingman, that's actually the pistol that inspired me to post this - Realized I'm not the only one thinking of how to adapt competition mode to work for defensive/tactical use.

Blair, obviously it'd have to be a bit of a compromise - It wouldn't be a full-on Open pistol, per se. I'm thinking it'd be built to run minor power factor, so you can use factory ammo and possibly even use the ammo in competition that you'd use in a defensive scenario. That means smaller comp, and less noise. Magazines are interchangeable - There's no reason you could t use shorter mags for practical purposes, then grab your big sticks for competition. The trigger would likely need to be a bit heavier - Or even, dare I say, a DA/SA trigger...? Cock the hammer at the start of a course of fire for the light, crisp, SA pull, then leave it decocked for practical use to have a beaver pull on the first shot?

[Hi-Power Jack]

a pistol that had to be BOTH Open pistol (not to win, but to have fun with) and a tactical/defense pistol (let's rule out concealed carry,

If you "rule out cc", I'd just use my STI TruBor ... and have a LOT of FUN with it.

[thermobollocks]

Any gun's an open gun if you're brave.

[BeerBaron]

I also think these are so far at opposite ends of use case as to be likely that you get a pistol that makes a bad open gun and a bad defensive gun.

but I'll bite anyway.

A 5 inch gun with slide cut to approx 4 inch so comp is flush with end of the (long) dustcover.

Just a simple 2 chamber comp. perhaps with 4 small barrel holes in a V config (as it has no side ports).

9mm for sure and setup to shoot a load that is 'sub-major' as in hotter than your typical minor load but not quite major. I'm thinking 124gn JHP's going 1200 FPS. around 150PF.

No big long mag, just a 140 should do fine.

A red dot most likely slide mounted that has the movement sensor so it turns on when you pick up the gun and that has massive battery life, ideally it should allow plenty of room to grab the rear slide serrations.

Nothing too fancy in trigger. just simple 3-3.5lb clean, crisp RELIABLE trigger.

one of the popular new tacticool magwells with the cut out

black DLC the whole thing

if it really is a home defense gun then you'd probably want that long dustcover to have a rail on it so you can mount a small flashlight. red dot sight is useless if you can't see anything except the red dot...

here's one that was likely a modified division gun with some cam on it. but I guess some of the old modified division guns floating around might be a reasonable go at a cross over open comp/home defense gun.

[Sarge]

Ported Glock with a slide mounted optic, magwell, and a Vanek trigger. For defense I would use the KISS principle and stay away from a true open gun. And I especially would not trust my life to an Open Glock!

[Rudukai13]

BeerBaron, I hadn't really thought of it before but I think you hit the nail on the head by mentioning IPSC Modified pistols! Ticks all the right boxes for an Open pistol, but with the size constraint keeps the gun small enough that it wouldn't be unwieldy in a defensive scenario. Great thought!

[pbcaster45]

Actually, I think my XDm Open Gun would do!

With this load.

Bullet: Winchester 115 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 5.7 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.115 (.839 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1260.13 fps
ES: 21.16
SD: 7.93

[Foxbat]

Chances are, a defensive shooting will happen without the double ear protection... good luck with that 9mm Major blast!

[Open1215]

Also, do NOT plan on using your loads for defense. You defend yourself with a hand load and your entire reloading practice is now one more chapter in the "let's lock this guy up" pile... is it fair? No. But I will happen. Why did you use this ammo? It said defense on the box so I got it. End of story.

[Rudukai13]

Open1215, I had always figured it would be best to choose either factory 9 minor or factory .40 major for this type of project, so that you could use the factory defensive ammos off the shelf.

[Open1215]

:-) good to hear. You could even go 38 super. Underwood has loads that are pretty close to major. If you go 9mm they also sell really hit +p+ loads. Not 9 major, but should work the comp.

[Rudukai13]

38 Super would also be a great option! A mix of Major PF for competition and factory loads to use for defensive purposes.

[Rudukai13]

Here's an idea - What about instead of using a traditional compensator, you were to build a pistol around the Schuemann Tribrid government (5") length barrel in 38 Super? Build it on a 2011 frame, with a frame-mounted mini RDS. No clumsy comp hanging off the end of the barrel keeps it compact and manageable for tactical work, while keeping a fairly effective port/comp system in the barrel. Miniature RDS again to reduce bulk and weight (frame-mounted is just my personal preference, for balance and aesthetics).

You'd end up with a Major PF, effectively ported/comped pistol, that can run factory ammo, and still be competitive in competition. You could even add Steel Challenge to the list of things you use it for. One gun, multiple disciplines, and practically useful in a defensive scenario...That'd be my ideal pistol

[Open1215]

I think that would be the ticket! I don't know about the dot holding up when slide mounted but I'm sure someone here knows of one that works. Sounds to me like you have a good plan. The 2nd option, 10mm/ 40 s&w. Shoot .40 for cheap brass. 10mm for defense.

[Rudukai13]

Oh no no I'd still go with a frame-mounted optic. I prefer the balance and the stationary dot much more than slide-mounted.

Seems to me like there are two ways to go about building something like this; The less expensive way, using a polymer striker-fired pistol (Glock, M&P, or XDm), or the incredibly expensive way - groveling at the altar of SVI

[Bruce]

Also, do NOT plan on using your loads for defense. You defend yourself with a hand load and your entire reloading practice is now one more chapter in the "let's lock this guy up" pile... is it fair? No. But I will happen. Why did you use this ammo? It said defense on the box so I got it. End of story.

I have always wanted to read the case where a person that was justified in using deadly force was convicted for using deadly force based on his choice of ammo...hand-loaded ammo vs. store bought. Have never been able to find that case.

[Open1215]

Neither have I. I'm sure unless you label the load "man hunter 5000" or something foolish like that. However, you are already going to be asked a million questions as well as loose the gun and remaining ammo. Why loose your reloading cabinet and all your notes as well.

[Bruce]

Neither have I. I'm sure unless you label the load "man hunter 5000" or something foolish like that. However, you are already going to be asked a million questions as well as loose the gun and remaining ammo. Why loose your reloading cabinet and all your notes as well.

I am not familiar with any justified use of deadly force case where reloading cabinets and notes were taken.

Back on topic, my choice for the pistol would be in 9x23 as I really like the caliber in non-open pistols, and I have known some who use the factory winchester ammo in their open pistol. Ears would sure take a pounding though.

[Kingman]

Agency Arms just brought out a Glock similar to the Costa.

I will buy a Costa STI in 9mm

[Rudukai13]

If I had the money for it, I'd just grab an STI Costa Carry Comp in 9mm, have a gunsmith mount a DeltaPoint Pro on a frame-mount, see if I could still fit a laser/light module on the rail, and never let that beautiful combo out of my sight! It'd be useful for damn near everything!