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Fun Stages


Smitty79

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Ben Stoeger's Practical Pistol Show spent a good deal of time talking about what makes stages fun. I had a lot of fun shooting my local match yesterday. This was driven by 2 of the stages.

I was in a 12 person squad that had a majority of Production and CO shooters. I think it was 8 total. The thing that made some of the stages so interesting and fun was the fact that no 2 people seemed to have precisely the same plan. The variation was pretty wild. I loved it.

Thanks to Bikerburgess and the other match director who keep putting this match on every month.

What makes stages fun for you?

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I like stages as you described that have options for different stage plans. Not everyone excels in the same area. Having a stage with options can let the shooter choose what may be best for them and be able to make up for a weakness. (All that sounded better in my head but took alot more words than I can type)

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What makes stages fun for you?

Diversity.

I can have fun shooting 1 or 2 of anything and then look forward to the next challenge, when it is all memory stages or all hoser stages or all etc etc I do not like it near as well.

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Variety and challenge in both where I have to point the gun and where I have to be on the ground to do it in completing a stage. Reliable movers.

A match of all distant, partial, high risk, from a bad body position shots is extremely un fun to me. That's like eating kale and water for every meal. Nor do I want a match all of open targets, no hard cover, no no shoots and all large poppers. While this is easy fun it is like having angle food cake and rootbeer floats for every meal. The first or second time it's awesome but the easy, sweetness eventually will cause you problems.

While it has nothing to do with my shooting, I do enjoy seeing other people shoot a stage well or inventively. I have fun seeing other people just nail a stage. Either in winning it overall or just doing whatever their level is, but perfectly for them. Shooting production I don't see wild variation in how we shoot the stages person to person. Some yes, but not like 50/50 differences over a match in what everyone did.

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When I try to build a stage, I want the Limited and Open people to have to think about what the best way is to get it done, and the restricted capacity guys to be able to come up with at least one method that makes sense.

Edited by thermobollocks
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I like stages that have various shooting challenges and target presentations (I love upside down targets!). I love when an absolute burner hoser stage, like 12 HF, has a couple of super high risk targets that force you to really pay attention, I feel like that instantaneous speeding up and slowing down really adds to the challenge.

Diversity is key, because matches that are 100% accuracy focused (did you shoot Oregon State Champs this year?) are just so difficult that it feel like a serious mental workout by the end, and that can degrade (at least for me) how well I shoot.

As far as pure fun, I think a whole match of wide open targets, just-go-fast type stages would be more fun for me than all accuracy.

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I like stages that have various shooting challenges and target presentations (I love upside down targets!). I love when an absolute burner hoser stage, like 12 HF, has a couple of super high risk targets that force you to really pay attention, I feel like that instantaneous speeding up and slowing down really adds to the challenge.

Diversity is key, because matches that are 100% accuracy focused (did you shoot Oregon State Champs this year?) are just so difficult that it feel like a serious mental workout by the end, and that can degrade (at least for me) how well I shoot.

As far as pure fun, I think a whole match of wide open targets, just-go-fast type stages would be more fun for me than all accuracy.

See you at the Croc next year Right :roflol:

Edited by bikerburgess
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I HATE memory stages - it doesn't prove you're a good shooter.

+1. Yeah, ALL of us Senior's agree 64%. Oops, no, we agree 127%. Nope, it's closer to 94%,

if I recall correctly. What was the dang question, again? :ph34r:

"it doesn't prove you're a good shooter."

I think you could say the same thing about running and stage planning and etc. , but just shooting would get boring I think.

I hate to admit it after cussing memory stages for my first 3 years, but now I like to see one now and then. Still do not like memory matches though, too much like working.

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One of the most fun stages I ever shot was so totally illegal that every member of my squad (all VERY experienced IDPA & USPSA shooters) grinned when they saw it.

There was one paper target to start that had to be shot through a designated port, and another 18 yard paper target that had to be taken next from the same position and required turning 90 degrees to the shooter's right after the first paper target. There were four poppers that could also be engaged through that port... or after a five yard run to the end of a wall.

Once at the end of the wall those four poppers could be engaged from there.... along with six other poppers AND a Texas Star.

Hose Fest!! What a hoot!

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  • 1 month later...

My local clubs love to have mandatory reloads and it drives me crazy!! Spend $3k plus on a Limited gun and rig to have to mandatory reloads!? Club primarily consists of Production is the bad part. Memory stages suck! Hardcover and no shoots is where its at for me. Plenty of steel is a big plus too!!

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newb question: Whats a memory stage?

A memory stage is a stage where lots of the targets can be engaged from multiple locations and the optimum path through the stage doesn't follow a simple path, say left to right, though the array.

You wind up having to memorize the target order without many of the patterns or mnemonics that we might normally use. Most field courses are go to a place, shoot an array, go to another place and shoot another array... Memory stages essentially require you to memorize each individual target without being able to group them as easily.

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Or, watch a good revolver shooter. They tend to have to split up arrays to avoid standing reloads and remember which targets in an array can be shot at what positions. It is less of an art form with 8 shot revolvers, but it is a challenge some of them enjoy and it is fun to watch.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I HATE memory stages - it doesn't prove you're a good shooter.

+1. Yeah, ALL of us Senior's agree 64%. Oops, no, we agree 127%. Nope, it's closer to 94%,

if I recall correctly. What was the dang question, again? :ph34r:

"it doesn't prove you're a good shooter."

I think you could say the same thing about running and stage planning and etc. , but just shooting would get boring I think.

I hate to admit it after cussing memory stages for my first 3 years, but now I like to see one now and then. Still do not like memory matches though, too much like working.

Sounds like ya all just exposed your weakness. That's sad.

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I HATE memory stages - it doesn't prove you're a good shooter.

+1. Yeah, ALL of us Senior's agree 64%. Oops, no, we agree 127%. Nope, it's closer to 94%,

if I recall correctly. What was the dang question, again? :ph34r:

"it doesn't prove you're a good shooter."

I think you could say the same thing about running and stage planning and etc. , but just shooting would get boring I think.

I hate to admit it after cussing memory stages for my first 3 years, but now I like to see one now and then. Still do not like memory matches though, too much like working.

Sounds like ya all just exposed your weakness. That's sad.

Can't speak for others, for me that list would be different and much longer :) .

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To me there is a difference between a fun stage and a fun match. For strait up fun it's hard to beat a full on hoser stage, there is just something about going that fast while shooting that makes me smile.

A match on the others needs to have balance, balance can be achieved with stages that test multiple skills or a combination of stages that each test one skill.

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I think stage and match design have a lot in common with golf architecture. Both are essentially designing the "opponent" for competition. Both are composed of discrete subparts (holes or stages) which have no direct relationship to one another, but which combine to create a larger whole (the golf course or the match). Both allow the designer to dictate certain demonstrations of skill, but also allow a lot of flexibility as to how a competitor meets the challenge/solves the problem.

Assuming one buys this basic analogy, then perhaps course designers can benefit from the century-plus of serious scholarship, criticism, analysis, and theory that has been developed around golf course architecture and bring some insights into stage and match design. Some of the things that golf architecture theorists largely agree on and that can, IMO, be usefully applied to stage/match design are:

Choices are fun. Giving different players the chance to chart different courses, depending on their personal strengths and weaknesses, makes things enjoyable for a wider array of people and more fun to think about and discuss.

Risk/reward tradeoffs are fun. Letting people attempt something hard that will reward them if they succeed, but punish them if they fail, but not FORCING that approach, is especially fun. It lets people gamble or play safe.

Challenges that are repetitive are not fun; variety is the spice of life. If every shot on a golf course is substantially the same, people get bored quickly. Same with practical shooting; if EVERY target is at 10 yards, that gets old quickly. If EVERY target is wide open, or, conversely, is heavily guarded with no-shoots, that gets old quickly.

Making players a little uncomfortable with odd stances can bring some energy and creativity to the game. Anything that gets people away from just repeating their "stock shot" from the range (driving range or square shooting range, same thing) will test the mental and psychological flexibility of the player.

For purposes of match drama, routing matters. To the extent that a USPSA course designer anticipates that highly-competitive squads will shoot a given stage last, the chances of having the outcome in doubt depend on there both being sufficient match points available on the final stage and enough of a disaster factor prospect that a current leader might stumble (yet still providing a chance for an aggressive chaser to go all-out and gain points if they succeed). Risk/reward is especially good for match drama towards the end.

There are lots of other lessons we could draw from golf architecture, but these are some of the basic concepts that substantially ALL modern golf critics/theorists agree on, and that I think are readily applicable to USPSA or other similar games.

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