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Outlaw Division at ICORE Matches?


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I recently volunteered to be the match director for our local ICORE club and several shooters have approached me with the "please just take my money and let us shoot autos at your match" routine. My response was twofold, I told them I'd be happy to loan a complete set of classic or limited 6 gear (I know these guys pretty well, they will treat my stuff with respect) and that if they really want to shoot autos at our matches all the revolver guys would have to be cool with it. What are your thoughts? I personally don't like the idea and was dead serious about loaning my gear out to any auto shooter who wants to try it. We have IDPA and USPSA every month so I feel like alternating months with ICORE really should be a revolver only match.

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Might be worth a try for the following reasons:

If your courses are set to be 6 shot neutral and they agree to load "only" 8 rounds in the auto, no barney loads either.

Then squad them as usual, score them as a 2nd gun or in Open or such even if iron sighted.

Get them to help set up, tear down.

Would give them a chance to see what scoring differences there are in this type of sport auto vs revolver.

Maybe you could get a few convinced to then try it with a regular revolver rig, maybe even get a few newbies?

If it gets to be a big pain, make it clear you'll stop it.

If they want trigger time, the rounds in the gun shouldn't be an issue. They will be scored different than USPSA though.

But you are wise to make sure the other Revolver Guys are ok with it.

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First Thanks for stepping up and taking on the role of match director and second nice to offer your gear to the guys that don't have a revolver.

My opinion is that USPSA, IDPA, and Steel Challenge are mostly competitions that are geared towards the autos and they let us revolver shooters play there so I hate to make ICORE sound elitist by not allowing autos to compete with us. Just my thoughts.

Limit their guns to 6 or 8 rounds and scored in outlaw class.

If they are willing to pay the entry fee to help pay for targets and pasters and the club makes some money off the entry fees all is good. They can help run timers and paste targets and help tear down after the match. Why would anyone have a problem with that? I have never been to a ICORE match that had enough shooters that adding a few more would hurt. In fact most local ICORE matches don't have enough to fill 2 squads and could use a few more shooters to run things and tear down.

If your club has a big enough turn out and they don't want autos to shoot then honer their wishes of course.

You might even get some of those auto guys to give the revolver a try.

Keep us posted on when your matches are scheduled. I might get a chance to make the trip north and shoot with you guys.

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Thanks for the comments thus far. We usually have around 15 shooters so it wouldn't hurt to have a bit more help with set-up and tear down. The first person to approach me about it was our IDPA match director and he recently volunteered to run a separate squad for autos so they aren't blended in with the regular ICORE divisions. That's an idea I might be able to get behind if the rest of our regular shooters are okay with it. I'll probably put it up for discussion at our first match of 16' and see what happens.

Bosshoss - Our matches alternate monthly with steel challenge and will probably be the fourth weekend of April, June, August, and October. I'll be sure to post in the match announcements section when we finalize the schedule this winter.

Edit: Matches are the fourth weekend, not third.

Edited by Alaskan454
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I was contemplating this when I started as MD at SCCC this year. I know the guys would love to shoot it and the way to do that would be like BossHoss said, limit the rounds in the gun and make them run in their own division. I really wanted to start off with revolver only, and we had over 20 show up for the first match. So I'll probably see how it goes a little bit longer (a few more matches next year) and then decide if I should to get more participation.

I think you're right by offering them the chance to shoot it with your gear and even if you do allow them to shoot it with an auto, keep the offer extended and they may take you up on it. Either way you decide I hope that I can make it up to some of your guys' matches next year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yes.

Let me just say that I'm putting feelers out to start a match like this, so I've put a little thought into it. I've come to the conclusion that I wouldn't be able to do it without auto shooters playing and volunteering to help. I'd also format it so that it encourages people to try wheelguns. Here's what I came up with.

I'd treat the auto shooters as a separate match and would lump them into two divisions. Open and Limited 8.

Open would be the catch all for Optics, ports, and people who don't want to shoot with reduced capacity mags or do not have enough magazines and holders to complete courses of fire without loading them past 8.

Limited 8 would be appropriate for Limited, L10, production, SSP, ESP, Single Stack, CDP, CCP given the participant has enough magazines and holders. L8 would have no barney loads.(No 8+1, but we don't care if you eventually get 8+1 in the gun during the course of fire)

All scoring and safety rules ICORE rules that could apply directly to autos will be used. We wouldn't care where magazines or holders were so long as they were on the belt and secure.

I'd also openly discourage anyone from building or buying an auto specifically for use in this game.

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I've considered the 8 shot max per magazine idea and the problem is needing 4 or 5 mags for long stage. A lot of our shooters are using 3 or less magazines at the present. IDPA has a maximum of 3 on the belt and unless you're shooting USPSA production or single stack 3 will suffice in most everything else. That would lead me to believe "limited 8" and "open" in the outlaw match would be the way to go. I'd just have them score it as a completely separate match if so. The more I think about it there are ways to keep everyone happy and give the auto shooters an extra match those months.

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Hello Guys.

I voted YES, shooting is shooting, and fun is fun.

With a few adjustments to the scoring ( Division ) I have no issue with this.

And as always, if they don't help, the don't get scored and keep the money.

Just my 2 cents.

Russell

Canadian ICORE and Action Pistol and IPSC shooter.

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We allow a limited # of pistol shooters at our monthly ICORE match. Initially it was revolvers only. Our IDPA AND USPSA matches run longer with more shooters. It's nice having the one match per month that finishes early. I just don't want to see it turn into 15 revos and 25 pistols with the match running a lot longer. Mark

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2 years ago I was totally opposed to this idea. Fast forward to Jan. 2015, when I took over as monthly ICORE MD for our club. I began allowing pistols as our attendance remained stagnant. I did so while creating a pistol division with an 8 round limit in the gun at the beep, and added a pistol penalty of 30 seconds per stage in hopes the pistols would not contaminate the overalls. This has worked well and as increased ICORE funds 10-20%. That means more steel, more props and more equipment for the club. A couple have purchased revolvers to no longer receive the 30 second pistol penalty and join the ranks of ICORE shooters. Others have learned to get hits. I am thinking of removing the pistol penalty currently as it really isn't necessary. USPSA/IDPA pistol shooters willing to load to 8 and wish to shoot an occasional ICORE match have not proven to be all that talented for whatever reason. So far for our small group of 15-20 revolver shooters adding 3-6 pistol shooters has been a win win.

Edited by Ty Hamby
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I'm a big fan of the Outlaw division. Reason Number One: I like beating them! :D

I've seen it done as 6 shots then reload. Don't have enough mags? Load 'em up and learn how to count to six! I think it generally teaches the auto shooter about accuracy, reloads, and humility! The club gains funds too! I would NOT segregate them to a separate squad. That defeats the purpose of showing them how much fun ICORE is.

As to timing, we're talking about taking an even with 15-20 attendees and making it 15-25. If every gets up, pastes, resets, and tears down, the match may move along Quicker!

In my very limited experience, ICORE has been some of the most welcoming and inviting shooters I've been around. To me, not having Outlaw is closing the door on 90% of the shooting community. Not everyone has been exposed to the wonders of the wheel gun. It's our job to be ambassadors and welcome these poor souls into the light!

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When Rio first had the ICORE match it was let known that this would be a Revolver Match only. Because if Autos were allowed it would gravitate to the USPSA match and take away from a Revo match. Rio was lucky they had a group of people to make this happen, and a pretty big source of revo dedicated shooters. The option for allowing other shooters to play their game is depending on local conditions. We have near 10 shooters per match as there is an USPSA match every weekend that Autos can get to. just my ramblings. Your mileage may differ

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We just score them in Auto division. Good people make the club better no matter what they're shooting.

I joined my club because I liked the people in it, its an Icore club so I shoot a revo most of the time. But it's till about the people for me. Sometimes I break out a semi and still get to shoot with my friends.

Kevin

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  • 1 month later...

I am going to open registration to single stack shooters, 8 rounds max in the gun hoping it will up match attendance. As others have stated numbers have stagnated this past year.

That would be cool to let single stacks shoot at local matches ... (stage solutions should be similar right??!?) ... Let them do what they regularly do ... 8 +1 in the chamber (no 10 round minor guys) ... don't screw with their normal routine (IMHO).

It would be fun for everyone to be able to compare results.

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That would be cool to let single stacks shoot at local matches ... (stage solutions should be similar right??!?) ... Let them do what they regularly do ... 8 +1 in the chamber (no 10 round minor guys) ... don't screw with their normal routine (IMHO).

It would be fun for everyone to be able to compare results.

Nope, have them start with 8 rounds max regardless of caliber

Edited by DonaldP
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Well ... whatever works ... but they might be more interested if they could justify their participation as "good practice" for their regular discipline shooting (be it single stack, custom defensive pistol etc).

I suspect they would grow tired of having to clear a slide lock everytime they fired their 8th shot ... Stage design will/should naturally limit the usefulness of the extra bullet.

Any superior "revolver" performance would fall to the "good ol boy match manipulation cloud" ... if we made them do "extra" stuff they would not normally do. (IMHO anyhow). :eatdrink:

Sounds like fun in any case ... I am sure they would let you know what they "would and wouldn't" stand for to play our game.

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When Rio first had the ICORE match it was let known that this would be a Revolver Match only. Because if Autos were allowed it would gravitate to the USPSA match and take away from a Revo match. Rio was lucky they had a group of people to make this happen, and a pretty big source of revo dedicated shooters. The option for allowing other shooters to play their game is depending on local conditions. We have near 10 shooters per match as there is an USPSA match every weekend that Autos can get to. just my ramblings. Your mileage may differ

People traveled by covered wagon at that time, right?

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