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Should Steel Challenge have a Minimum 125PF


bigtimelarry

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The minor exception is that with the current 2013 provisional rule set we're currently working under the rules for open division are slightly looser than the rules governing USPSA open. For all other center fire divisions the rules clearly say to follow current USPSA division rules WRT equipment ...

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IMHO steel challenge should simplify the divisions. Open and iron sights... That's it, with a 5 rd string does it matter if you have 10 or 20 rds in your magazine. Main match, Revo, rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle.

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IMHO steel challenge should simplify the divisions. Open and iron sights... That's it, with a 5 rd string does it matter if you have 10 or 20 rds in your magazine. Main match, Revo, rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle.

I can't see anything wrong with that myself. You would need open and iron divisions in rimfire also. All divisions can load magazines to whatever capacity they want.

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IMHO steel challenge should simplify the divisions. Open and iron sights... That's it, with a 5 rd string does it matter if you have 10 or 20 rds in your magazine. Main match, Revo, rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle.

I can't see anything wrong with that myself. You would need open and iron divisions in rimfire also. All divisions can load magazines to whatever capacity they want.

I mean 4 x 2 divisions. With each division having iron or open sights.

1. Main match (center fire pistol)

2. Revolver

3. Rimfire pistol

4. Rimfire rifle

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Some of those divisions were created to attract non-USPSA shooters, like Production for instance. Both USPSA and SCSA added that to attract IDPA SSP shooters and is the reason why it has IDPA holster requirements. As a result the Production division is one of the most popular ones. Me, while I have IDPA guns I don't bother to shoot them in SC. I prefer open and limited with the occasional SS entry. And of course as many rimfire guns as I can shoot.

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So Steel Challenge Production Holster rules are what ? IDPA or USPSA Production..

and the easiest way is for you to go to the SCSA web site and down load the current rule book. It isn't that big. Read it carefully and when a question arises always refer back to the rule book. There are a lot of myths at matches from people that have never read the rules. or things that people just make up. If it is a sanctioned match it must be run by the rules. If its "outlaw" or not sanctioned by SCSA then you better ask before you play.

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IMHO steel challenge should simplify the divisions. Open and iron sights... That's it, with a 5 rd string does it matter if you have 10 or 20 rds in your magazine. Main match, Revo, rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle.

I can't see anything wrong with that myself. You would need open and iron divisions in rimfire also. All divisions can load magazines to whatever capacity they want.

I mean 4 x 2 divisions. With each division having iron or open sights.

1. Main match (center fire pistol)

2. Revolver

3. Rimfire pistol

4. Rimfire rifle

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fine at the upper competition levels, but you would have everything from literally stock service pistols/full holsters to iron sight open guns/race holsters in the same division which wouldn't even recognize the competitive disadvantage of the former on the final tally. Nothing says "mortals of normal capability and means please relegate yourselves to rimfire pistol" like that sort of categorization. Would be absolutely fine for clubs - why would they bother to affiliate since SCSA wouldn't be tracking results in sensible divisions.

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I can't really see any competitive advantage within the various center fire divisions WRT magazine capacity so I don't see any downside to simplifying things by saying you can have whatever number of rounds in the mag you want. That being said, having to follow the magazine capacity limitations of the "USPSA" division you're shooting doesn't really affect anything either.

A lot of this depends on how closely you want to couple SC & USPSA ....

Edited by Nimitz
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Making a 10 round limit in production means people need to have 5 magazines to move the match along. I've seen beginners use more than 10 rounds to complete 1 string. While people can reload magazines between strings it is nice to not feel like you are holding anything up.

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Or just make them shoot Limited if they don't have 5 magazines..

Under our current classification system I would agree with that; however, come 1 Jan 2016 we're supposed to have classification based on division so if the shooter has no plans of ever shooting limited in the future we're doing a dis-service to him by running him in limited.

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Or just make them shoot Limited if they don't have 5 magazines..

Under our current classification system I would agree with that; however, come 1 Jan 2016 we're supposed to have classification based on division so if the shooter has no plans of ever shooting limited in the future we're doing a dis-service to him by running him in limited.

He's doing a dis-service to his Squad by not having enough magazines and slowing down the match..

Edited by bigtimelarry
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He's doing a dis-service to his Squad by not having enough magazines and slowing down the match..

That's the reason I (1) had him squad with me (no one complains if the MD's squad is slow) and (2) lent him extra magazines so that he would have 5. It's an unrealistic expectation, IMO, that a new shooter is going to show up at the match fully prepared. He got through the match and knows to have 5 for January.

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Zack, I got into an argument with a guy on another forum because he insisted that it was poor form not to have enough mags to shoot the whole match without reloading.

I would agree if it were a shooter that has been to a few matches, but if he's new to the game I'd not be so demanding. We've had folks that we tell "just show up with what you have" come to matches. We loan them mags or someone loads for them while they shoot. After a match or two and they get all their gear together it isn't an issue.
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I just looked at the results from the 2015 championship:

Average time of the top three finishers in both divisions

Production 90.93

Limited 90.89

How stock are those production pistols? Probably a bit removed from what the average SSP/Prod shooter is running.

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Zack, I got into an argument with a guy on another forum because he insisted that it was poor form not to have enough mags to shoot the whole match without reloading.

I would agree if it were a shooter that has been to a few matches, but if he's new to the game I'd not be so demanding. We've had folks that we tell "just show up with what you have" come to matches. We loan them mags or someone loads for them while they shoot. After a match or two and they get all their gear together it isn't an issue.

No, he believed you should have enough mags for the WHOLE match. 39 mags all loaded up and ready to go for an eight stage match.

We have had guys show up with two or three mags and it never causes a problem. It would get old if they kept doing it match after match though.

Edited by Pasley
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I just looked at the results from the 2015 championship:

Average time of the top three finishers in both divisions

Production 90.93

Limited 90.89

How stock are those production pistols? Probably a bit removed from what the average SSP/Prod shooter is running.
Doubtful ... The top shooters who shoot Production don't have magic Production guns that are different from everyone else .... That's whole point of Production. What they do have in an incrediable amount of highly developed skill acquired from years of relentless training. That's why the times look similar, that and the fact that in Steel Challenge the equipment differences really don't help make a lot of difference in scores. Being allowed to have a magwell, thumb rest and race holster just don't amount to much of an advantage at the elite levels ... Edited by Nimitz
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