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From the ICORE facbook page I read today. Looks like Limited 6 is in and 6-Shot Neutrality is out. It'll be interesting to see how this will affect stage designs.

https://www.facebook.com/ICOREshooting/

NEWSY ITEMS GOING OUT SOON TO ALL MEMBERS.....

RULES DIRECTOR: Michael Williams was appointed to serve the remainder of this term ending June 30, 2016. (Welcome Mike. Miss you Chris.)

NOMINATIONS FOR 2016 ELECTION: Members will be able to nominate via several ways, including online, e-mail, or snail mail.

RULE CHANGES: Mike Williams came just in time to finish up what Chris Comer had started months ago. After a never-ending discussion and a review of the member survey on the topic, a majority of the Board voted on October 12, 2015, to adopt a fourth Division for Limited 6, and also to eliminate the rule 4.1 requirement that "The stage layout must be 6 round neutral." Rule book edits are being prepared and will be released in time for the effective date of January 1, 2016. Please contact Mike via e-mail (rules@icore.org) if you have questions on the changes.

NEW CLUBS: Anyone interested in starting a new club but don't think you have enough shooters to do so, feel free to ask via e-mail (competition@icore.org). Stats and Comp are working together to make it easy.

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You'll still want to use barriers and split up arrays, so you'll still be deciding how and where to place arrays to challenge shooters. The advantage is that now you don't have to move things around or add barriers/barrels just to block off an array of one of your targets happens to be shootable from an area you didn't intend.

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I just designed some of my first stages this week and it was really hard to stick to the first draft and keep everything 6 shot neutral. My preference is to have arrays where you can get creative and 6 vs 8 shots doesn't matter so much.

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I don't fully understand the non-neutral part. You guys seem to be in support, so I'll bow out to your experience. I like the idea that 8 shots doesn't have an obvious advantage(Think standing reloads at a four target array). I guess it provides the match-makers more freedom in stage design.

I'm happy with the L-6 decision. At my last match, I felt I had an advantage with 8 shots over the 625's(I surely did on some stages!)

I'm new to the sport, but enjoying myself!

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I've not had any issue with stage design as far as neutrality goes. It proved difficult at times when designing stages and you would realize that a target could be engaged from a position you hadn't realized and the 8-shot guys would have been able to pick up that target because of the extra rounds in the wheel.

But some people did have issues when it came to designing stages because they just set up arrays where you had 6 shots here, then 6 here and then 6 here. There wasn't much variety or creativity in stages some people set up. The idea was that this would create more variety and creative stage designs.

Like I said, I didn't feel there was an issue. I hope it makes the sport more fun for other people and I am interested to see what kind of stages people come up with now that neutrality isn't at play.

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I just designed some of my first stages this week and it was really hard to stick to the first draft and keep everything 6 shot neutral. My preference is to have arrays where you can get creative and 6 vs 8 shots doesn't matter so much.

Now you can be a problem causer and make everyone have a standing reload or really force shooters to shoot on the move to avoid them! ? Edited by Forrest Halley
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The Non - Neutral part is a double edge sword. Adding L-6 gives a place for the 6 shot clipped guns to play but 6 will never equal 8 in anything but a classifier.

Good stage designers can minimize the advantage of 8 shot guns. No matter what you do a 6 shot gun will have to reload more than a 8 shot gun unless the courses have 3 targets in every port or position. But the advantage can be minimized with good course design.

​ICORE matches usually have smaller turn outs and the shooters tend to look at their times against everyone else( because the divisions usually only have a hand full of shooters in each division) and might get discouraged and not come back. If stage designers start throwing up 8+ shot arrays all the time the 6 shot Limited and Classic shooters are going to get tired of standing reloads that the 8 shot guns are not doing even if they are in other divisions.

IMO

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I would say that shooting for overall is something that open shooters tend to do. I see that happening in USPSA and at our local ICORE matches. I know we are a little spoiled at Rio Salado because we have such a large revolver club. We also have an active club at another range across town at South Mountain. Even so I would really like to see the sport grow and I think limited 6 might be a good choice for new shooters. This will allow people who don't want to shoot speed loaders to shoot moon clips guns that are less expensive than an 8 shot in a division where they can be competitive.

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> snip <

This will allow people who don't want to shoot speed loaders to shoot moon clips guns that are less expensive than an 8 shot in a division where they can be competitive.

> snip <

:cheers: ... exactly!! ... also ... I wonder if this will division will just collect (existing) 625s ... or if some might actually try L/K guns cut for moons?? (though it seems unlikely they would reload as fast as a 45). At any rate ... this should boost 625 resale value.

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Shooters are stating to love those 8 shots, but creativity in stage design would have been better than changing form 6 round neutral.

Make a stage have 9 shots from one position and both 6 and 8 shooter have to make a standing reload, eliminated the advantage of the 8 shot.

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I run a moon clipped 686 SSR and loading 38 isn't bad so long as the clip isn't bent. That being said, I bet long colt or short colt would be even easier to load and possibly be just as quick as a 45. I'm happy that they added the division, and like I said I'm interested to see how eliminating neutrality will affect stage designs. I also wonder how long it will take for new classifications to be posted after they're submitted for that division. I can see some people trying to use it to move up their classification by getting in early for L-6. I'm sure they will wait until they have a solid base for that division before they start giving people classifications in L-6.

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> snip <

I also wonder how long it will take for new classifications to be posted after they're submitted for that division. I can see some people trying to use it to move up their classification by getting in early for L-6. I'm sure they will wait until they have a solid base for that division before they start giving people classifications in L-6.

> snip <

It will be interesting to see how they handle that ... but ... I don't think there are any classifiers where it makes any difference if you are shooting 6 or 8 ... unless you make a case that there might be an advantage (handling/reloading) one over the other ... it seems that "Limited" (moonclip) classifications could stand as they are.

Why would "Limited" classifications have to be split into sub-divisions?? ...Wow ... now you have me wondering what "they" are thinking about that too ... hmmmm). :eatdrink:

edit: just correcting some of my poor(est) grammar/spellling

Edited by pete627
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I just designed some of my first stages this week and it was really hard to stick to the first draft and keep everything 6 shot neutral. My preference is to have arrays where you can get creative and 6 vs 8 shots doesn't matter so much.

Now you can be a problem causer and make everyone have a standing reload or really force shooters to shoot on the move to avoid them! ?

I always liked the term "run and gun" and will make most of my stages fit that description for our first match of 16'. I like doing the occasional speed dump on a target but I have more fun poking the gun through 55gal drums and port holes or blasting arrays of single targets as you can see them.

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We had a 34 round stage today with plenty of reloads, I'm all about it! Also, I'm going to be one of the few shooting a 625 in L6. I finally got it set up just how I like so I'm going to run it all next season with 180-200gr at around 135 PF.

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Now this is laughable.... Now that it's not required....everyone wants to go to it??[emoji86] I say just have at it and make some murderous stages with forty plus rounds required. I'm here for the reloading party!

I'm definitely going to take advantage of the rule change and throw a nasty par time steel stage. Lots of plates, probably forward falling steel with plates behind it, & auto poppers (they pop right back up).

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> snip <

I also wonder how long it will take for new classifications to be posted after they're submitted for that division. I can see some people trying to use it to move up their classification by getting in early for L-6. I'm sure they will wait until they have a solid base for that division before they start giving people classifications in L-6.

> snip <

It will be interesting to see how they handle that ... but ... I don't think there are any classifiers where it makes any difference if you are shooting 6 or 8 ... unless you make a case that there might be an advantage (handling/reloading) one over the other ... it seems that "Limited" (moonclip) classifications could stand as they are.

Why would "Limited" classifications have to be split into sub-divisions?? ...Wow ... now you have me wondering what "they" are thinking about that too ... hmmmm). :eatdrink:

edit: just correcting some of my poor(est) grammar/spellling

I was just remembering when they added classic division, they didn't post classifications for a while. When adding a new division, no classifiers for that division are present (you can't tell if somebody in Limited was shooting a 625 or 627). So people have to submit new classifiers to be classified in a new division. The problem is, I could send in 8 classifiers and if they just posted them right away, I would have the 100% for those stages and I would be a GM, but I'm not a GM, and I don't shoot like one (yet). So they have to hold off before posting classifications until they get enough of them submitted to get a solid base for the new division.

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I think that I am being misunderstood. Since they added a new division, nobody has any classifiers scores submitted for said new divison; nobody can be a recognized GM, M, A, B, C, or D until they submit new scores to be classified. I am not talking about the stages themselves, I am talking about shooter classification in a new division.

If I submit the first set of scores and they immediately calculated them, I would be a GM because I have the 100%, nobody has bested my time. Once you have gained a classification it isn't taken from you unless asked or challenged. So I would hold a GM status even though I do not shoot or compete at a GM level. The only way to prevent this is to wait until they have enough scores submitted for the new division that they have a solid base of scores and then start to calculate and post them. That way it would be a fair classification of shooters in that division. This obviously will take time, I was wandering how long it will take.

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I think that I am being misunderstood. Since they added a new division, nobody has any classifiers scores submitted for said new divison; nobody can be a recognized GM, M, A, B, C, or D until they submit new scores to be classified. I am not talking about the stages themselves, I am talking about shooter classification in a new division.

If I submit the first set of scores and they immediately calculated them, I would be a GM because I have the 100%, nobody has bested my time. Once you have gained a classification it isn't taken from you unless asked or challenged. So I would hold a GM status even though I do not shoot or compete at a GM level. The only way to prevent this is to wait until they have enough scores submitted for the new division that they have a solid base of scores and then start to calculate and post them. That way it would be a fair classification of shooters in that division. This obviously will take time, I was wandering how long it will take.

I think we (I) got it ... But we (I) are/am saying ... a classification in "Limited" is a classification that is good for "Limited 6" or "Limited 8" ... or heck ... even if you are shooting a 986 (a 7 rounder that would unfortunately have to shoot "regular" Limited in a match) ...

If you have a classification in Limited you are classified w/ a non-optic (or anything else that would throw you into Open) moon clip gun ... w/o regard to how many rounds were attached.

I think!! :closedeyes:

edit: I have a "C" (sniff) classification in Limited ... today... (using my 627) ... I think if I stepped out to my next match (after Jan 1, 2016) with a 625 ... I could shoot in Limited 6 and already be classified!!

Edited by pete627
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I have only been shooting a 625, so I was going to submit my recent classifiers for L6 and they will likely give a de facto classification in limited as well. I'm sure the stats guy will wait until enough people submit to post the class.

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