sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Cross Post from Match Screw ups to get some CZ owner perspective: I was at the Area 8 shoot on Friday and got a rather rude awakening in what was our second to last stage of the day. The Chrono / equipment check stage which should not be a surprise stage, shocked me. "Your gun doesn't fit in the box". Now, this is a bit of a problem because I shoot production and have not modified the magazine provided nor the exterior of the gun AT ALL. I purchased my CZ SP-01 from CZ custom, with their assurance it was production legal. Magazine was stock. Sights all stock as they came on the gun. Hell, I did not even move the sights since I bought it as it came spot on. The dimension which would not fit was gun height with magazine inserted measured from top of the sight to the bottom of the mag well. My friend's shadow fit fine with the same mag, I tried it after they told me, just to see if it was a magazine issue. So the same mag, two different shadows, mine fails, his passes. I called CZ custom literally as I heard, asking for a callback. They called me back today, leaving me a message. Their response, "the box is wrong". Now I drove over 10 hours for this match, and returned home after shooting Friday afternoon. I am not sure what to do here. I cannot really ask for a box clarification since the gun and box are 5 hours apart. Anyone have any ideas? Other than, check your gun before assuming it fits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 really wierd. did you get a pic? where was the interference? i've shot area 8 and seen all kinds of CZs pass the box. not sure if they make a new box every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) No pic, should have, but this was something I was not prepared for. The problem was the gun's height. Rear sight to mag base measurement. It was over the box by about 1mm. Saw other people pass with CZs too, but this one failed. Totally perplexed. Might be worth noting several people did fail the box test and get bumped to open that day. I have no idea what the procedure is to call the box into question and get a ruling on it. Even if I did, I am not sure how I could ensure it was thorough if I cannot be there in person. I imagine there is significant incentive for the match director to not admit the box is out of spec having bumped several people to Open. Edited August 30, 2015 by sudoshakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Was it a wood or metal box? You probably should have demanded that the box be measure to know if it was in spec size. There is a tolerance for the size of the box also that even if the box was sized correctly you could get an allowance for the additional 1/8". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 My Shadow sp01 and my daughters sp01 passed. We are using sp base pads. Both were very close, but they always are really close. I am pretty sure the box was polymer. I can look tomorrow and try to measure with pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 And I don't understand the comment about the incentive for the match director not admitting the box is out is spec. It either is or isn't, to say it is when it isn't would be a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 And I don't understand the comment about the incentive for the match director not admitting the box is out is spec. It either is or isn't, to say it is when it isn't would be a lie. I mean to say, if I challenge it, and he has a bad box, then he has to go back and fix all the other guns that got bumped, which I would imagine is a huge hassle for a 5 day long match where competitors are not local. I would think that is incentive to... ignore a bad box. Not saying one would, but that the situation would lead itself to incentivizing a lie even if the challenge was successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 My Shadow sp01 and my daughters sp01 passed. We are using sp base pads. Both were very close, but they always are really close. I am pretty sure the box was polymer. I can look tomorrow and try to measure with pictures. I have several mags with springer precision base pads. All of those passed. The mag I handed him was a stock mag, unmodified because I just grabbed the last one in my rig on instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Was it a wood or metal box? You probably should have demanded that the box be measure to know if it was in spec size. There is a tolerance for the size of the box also that even if the box was sized correctly you could get an allowance for the additional 1/8". The box was polymer. If I am allowed another 1/* of an inch I easily would have passed. This is good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 FWIW Appendix D4-7 allows +1/16", -0. It does seem that box needs to be checked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Which magazines are you using? CZ 18 round, MecGar 17 Round, MecGar 19 round, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Measured the box it is build to the high side of the tolerance, so it gives you everything allowed. Expect another post with pics. And I was wrong it is metal. Edited August 30, 2015 by andrewtac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Which magazines are you using? CZ 18 round, MecGar 17 Round, MecGar 19 round, etc. I tried several mags, as I have a variety. The CZ 18 round mags with springer base pads worked fine. The Mecgar 19 round failed (but worked fine in my friends shadow). Stock CZ 18 round magazine with base pad I got with the gun failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Measured the box it is build to the high side of the tolerance, so it gives you everything allowed. Expect another post with pics. And I was wrong it is metal. The box I was measured with was definitely plastic polymer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Which magazines are you using? CZ 18 round, MecGar 17 Round, MecGar 19 round, etc. I tried several mags, as I have a variety. The CZ 18 round mags with springer base pads worked fine. The Mecgar 19 round failed (but worked fine in my friends shadow). Stock CZ 18 round magazine with base pad I got with the gun failed. Very odd the 18's failed, the 19's are known to not usually pass. What rear sight are you running? Could've tried squishing it down if you are running an adjustable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Measured the box it is build to the high side of the tolerance, so it gives you everything allowed. Expect another post with pics. And I was wrong it is metal. The box I was measured with was definitely plastic polymer. No it was not, it looks plastic. It is painted metal. I thought it was plastic as well until I looked at it this morning. Again, pics and a post by someone else when the match is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The Mecgar 19 rounders will definitely fail the box test. But I've never seen the CZ OEM 18 rounders fail the box. That is very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0kawn Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I worked the chrono stage on Thursday while staff shot, the box is certainly metal. It's the offical USPSA box with hinged metal lid. We had atleast 5 SP01's and shadows come through while I was there that all passed. My own SP01 Shadow Target with factory shadow mag fit as well. The box that's being used was on the uspsa store prior to them 'closing it for renovations', not sure who the manufacturer is. "Handgun with empty magazines inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (USPSA Rules, Feb 2014)" Simple check, draw a box on paper, see if you can place gun with your magazine combo fully within your lines looking down on all edges. I did this on the back side of my cleaning mat on the gun bench when I started shooting a grand power in production, as it didn't look like it'd fit (but did, passing my test and the box at A6 in April). Sorry it happened at a major match though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 All of my MecGar 17 round mags with Springer or Shockbottle basepads in my Accu Shadow fit the box every time. Mecgar 17 round mag. A Mecgar 19 rd in a Shadow will absolutely not fit the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 There is an inherent variation in pistol to pistol and part to part. You may be the victim of a rear dove tail that is cut to shallow, which causes your rear sight to be too high. Could also be the sight is too tall. The only thing I can think to do is file down either the top of the sight or bottom to the point that it fits. Bottom of the sight would be best as that would be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I would think filing the bottom would have no affect because the set screw would still push it to the top of the dovetail. File the top of the site I would think would be legal because you are not altering the gun, just the sight(don't shoot production so not sure on that). Only problem with that is you would need to change front site as well not to change poi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I would think filing the bottom would have no affect because the set screw would still push it to the top of the dovetail. File the top of the site I would think would be legal because you are not altering the gun, just the sight(don't shoot production so not sure on that). Only problem with that is you would need to change front site as well not to change poi.. File the front as well to move poi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Problem #1 you have a variety of magazines. This is just setting you up to fail. The fix= get rid of all the magazine/base pad that don't fit the box, replace with ones that fit the box. This way there will be no mistakes of I grab the wrong mag from my belt in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walküre Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Do you have a set of calipers available to check the actual height of the rear sight (from the top flat of the slide)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudoshakes Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 My Shadow sp01 and my daughters sp01 passed. We are using sp base pads. Both were very close, but they always are really close. I am pretty sure the box was polymer. I can look tomorrow and try to measure with pictures. That would be great if you could do that for me. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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