GunBugBit Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) I don't always feel as connected to the gun when I start stages as I'd like to. I'll shoot a few rounds and realize, shucks, I'm not quite using the grip I really want to use here, the one I know lets me shoot a little faster and maintain my best control and accuracy. After shooting my second USPSA match yesterday and having an afternoon to think about that match (much improved over the first USPSA match, I'm happy to say) and the 7 various matches I shot in July, I decided I'm going to go heavy on reps of a really simple drill. For this drill, sighting onto a target is part of it but I will emphasize building into the grip I've found works best for me. I'll focus a lot on the feeling of that. That feeling needs to happen every time I draw and get ready to shoot the first target, without fail. Edited August 3, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DedOn Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 What i have found, through great advice on this site, is that if you take that extra half of a second to really establish your proper grip before breaking your first shot, you will increase your speed AND accuracy throughout the stage. Work on speed in practice and focus on proper technique in matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yeah, you need to establish the proper grip before your gun leaves the holster. And, don't get all caught up in trying to master a one second draw. The draw is something one does only once per stage. Master splits, transitions and movement. That is where you can really save time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks Reshoot, but I'm talking about the aspects of the grip that cannot be established before the grip leaves the holster, unless you know how to involve the support hand before the gun leaves the holster. I'm not talking at all about a fast draw here. I'm talking about drawing into the grip that will best facilitate optimal shooting. DedOn, your remarks ring dead-on to me. This is the idea: ...if you take that extra half of a second to really establish your proper grip before breaking your first shot, you will increase your speed AND accuracy throughout the stage... Edited August 3, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwarhog5 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This video helped me a lot. https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I just watched an older video of some of the top shooters including Leatham and Enos. There were different approaches to the grip out of the holster. One approach (which I couldn't believe I was hearing) was to adjust your grip between the time the gun leaves the holster and the first shot is fired. So some people do that! Recently (before I saw that) I was watching a video about Leatham's grip. He talked about locating your hand on the gun using the web between your thumb and trigger finger. This was just how to grip the gun in general, but the theory applied well to drawing from a holster. I practiced doing thatj for a couple of hours, and the next time I drew from holster my hand seemed to put itself right where it needed to be. For me it's not perfect every time, but it seems really close. My grips are a little thin for my liking though, and trying a shim under the grip panel seems to get me where I need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 the Bill Drill is one of the best drills for learning to execute the perfect grip with a high speed draw ... the only way to shoot a good Bill Drill is to have a perfect grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmann Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Bill drill? I noticed last weekend when I did the steel challenge, when the buzzer went off my grip went full on stupid. I shot horrible and I truly believe 99% of it was grip and jerking the trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If you train correctly but tend to have poor grips out of draw in matches, it may be that you were thinking about gripping too much before the buzzer goes off. The key is to let your subconscious mind take over the motor skills. Try to think of something else such as "watch the sight" or call shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Bill drill? I noticed last weekend when I did the steel challenge, when the buzzer went off my grip went full on stupid. I shot horrible and I truly believe 99% of it was grip and jerking the trigger yep, you definitely need to start incorporating Bill Drills in your training .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I just watched an older video of some of the top shooters including Leatham and Enos. There were different approaches to the grip out of the holster. One approach (which I couldn't believe I was hearing) was to adjust your grip between the time the gun leaves the holster and the first shot is fired. So some people do that! If you don't build up your grip between the time the gun leaves the holster and the time the first shot is fired, how in the world would you ever get your support hand involved? A couple of you guys are talking like the shooting hand is the only thing involved in the grip. I have a hunch someone has been to classes, read books, or seen videos, where the instructors/writers preach "getting that perfect grip before the gun leaves the holster." It sounds nice but you're not even halfway to getting your full shooting grip at that point. The point that is intended, IMHO, is that the grip you establish before the gun leaves the holster must be solid enough to achieve a secure draw. No one wants guns being flung about because shooters aren't solidly gripping their guns as they leave the holsters. Edited August 11, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Bill Drills and Steel Challenge matches are both things that will show you whether you are drawing into a good grip. Getting into that grip in a hurry is important, but knowing exactly what the grip feels like is more fundamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketanchand Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Maybe switch guns to one with a better grip/stocks that fit your hand better. 1911's aren't the God gun of grips for everyone. The H&K VP9 has three different panels to fit almost every hand out there. Also, you might want to stipple your guns grips even more, that way there is no slip whatsoever when you are drawing and your hand will be so much more planted on the grip surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 ketanchand, none of the discussion so far has been gun-dependent. We aren't talking about which guns fit a person's hand better or worse, nor what kinds of texturing to have on the gun's grip. We are talking about the optimal shooter's freestyle (two-handed) grip/hold setup -- the one that allows for best speed and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmann Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Guess I'll Google the bill drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona955i Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A bill drill is shooting at a near (7 to 10 yards) man sized target (USPSA, IDPA, B27, etc). You draw from the holster, and fire 6 rounds as fast as you can. It is a great drill to use to work on or measure establishing a good grip on the draw, and focusing on the front sight. I often do a 3/3/3 version of the drill to add on working on reloads and re-establishing a positive grip quickly. With a good belt and a kydex holster, you should be able to push your hand into the gun to establish a good hard/high grip, and then draw. After awhile it's very natural and you don't have to push down to get the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Bill Drill: this is a pass/fail drill ..... 6 shots - all alphas = pass; anything else = fail. doesn't mean you don't learn anything on that rep but a successful Bill Drill is defined as all As. As for the draw, you should be striving not to push down on the gun as your strong hand wraps around the grip ...pushing down wastes a lot of time ... it's more of a 'grip & snatch' type movement ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If you train correctly but tend to have poor grips out of draw in matches, it may be that you were thinking about gripping too much before the buzzer goes off. The key is to let your subconscious mind take over the motor skills. Try to think of something else such as "watch the sight" or call shots. Agree with this - I'm thinking less about fine motor movement (learned in dry fire) and more about visualizing the feet movement, body index and front sight tracking. I'm still working on a better body index for the first shot...spending too much time searching for the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I'm glad this thread evolved to discussion of the Bill Drill because doing this great drill in live fire will validate whether you built into your good grip setup. My reps are showing me I can get to the right setup quickly by getting the support hand to the correct angle before coming up to the gun. At first I was working the support hand around on the gun and strong hand to get it into the right position, wasteful of precious time. There's a feeling of rightness that happens when my palms thumb butts press together a certain way, and I keep doing the reps to consistently get to that feeling efficiently (fast). Edited August 12, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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