Best Way to Sling a Rifle Where Significant Movement is Required

[skatz11]

Has anyone claiming this demo is a DQ for a 180 break actually shot any matches that have required using sling with an unloaded rifle or shotgun?

[ericm]

...don't know about those claiming a DQ, but I would hazard that everyone on this thread has slung unloaded long guns as described in a match. It is the nature of many 3 gun matches these days.

My point (see my post above) is that, in the narrow interest of using all three guns on a stage or to make the stage "more better" "more long-er" etc., a "safety exception" has been slowly defined over time to ignore muzzle violations when slinging, carrying and unslinging long guns on the clock. These exceptions go against the grain of long established rules for gun handling, either loaded or unloaded, and are applied inconsistently vis a vis handguns.

IMHO, match directors and stage designers should fix this, because there really can be no safety exceptions.

mi dos centavos,

ericm

[kurtm]

I had a big old long repose to this but I couldn't get it posted. Readers Digest version. I have witnessed a few too many rounds shot after the unload and show clear command in IPSC and USPSA to ever feel good about the cursory examination of an "empty" rifle that has passed at the matches I have attended that require this sort of non-sense! " It's empty so it's really a stick"

Yes it is a skill you need!....not in a match! Oh but that get's into the Martial use of fire arms....which most new guys don't follow. For them it is "fluffy the pet gun"..."I got into this sport because it is fun, don't kill the fun because of some arcane safety rule!"

First rule IS STILL THE FIRST RULE!!!! Treat ALL guns as if they are loaded!!! AND WHO SAID THAT DAMN RIFLE WAS UNLOADED?????

Edited November 18, 2015 by kurtm

[ctay]

Can't disagree with that. Gun is always loaded.

[thermobollocks]

Can't disagree with that. Gun is always loaded.

Better give up dry-fire practice.

[MarkCO]

So Kurt, are you trying to imply he violated the first law of gun safety?

Edited November 18, 2015 by MarkCO

[kurtm]

Hmm.... Thermo, do you dry fire at your wife's head??? I have seen some real STUPID gun handling when "they know it's empty"....your call! I won't give up dry fire. but I make sure it is always in a safe direction....just in case! I still don't let the muzzle cover anything I don't wish to destroy....even after 80,000 "clicks" but your practice is up to you! Hope I don't see you in the papers!

Mark, who are we talking about? Mine was a general post, but you have to tell me if we are going to pick on someone! !

I am just tired of the poor gun handling exhibited by some and excused by rules as "it's just a stick". Once again, the question should be, would I point this at my kid/wife/anything that really means something to me, just because "it is a stick" if the answer is no...then maybe we shouldn't do that shit!

[MarkCO]

Good enough Kurt, just asking.

While this is a "competition" forum where the "180 rule" gets used. For the mast majority of the used of firearms, there is no 180. That is a good, and agreeable additional layer of safety added to competition, but lets not forget that before competition, the 4 laws of gun safety were in play, and they serve a good number of people who do not compete very well. To violate them in competition is still violating them and should not be okay.

[Neomet]

So, for the spatially inept here (me) how could I sling up without breaking the 180 when I unsling? I can't think of a way to do it with the rifle slung on my back.

[bishop414]

Neo,

The rule sets I am familiar with consider the long gun a "stick" since it is unloaded. You cannot load the weapon until you have it under control and pointed down range at which the 180 comes into effect.

This is not a comment on firearm safety or specific rule sets, just how SMM3G and RM3G do it.

[thermobollocks]

Muzzle pointing in the same direction as your holstered pistol, unsling by bringing it barrel first underneath your strong side armpit.

[Neomet]

Thanks Bishop. Agree it isn't a violation of the rules but personal preference is that I don't do it. :-)

Thermo... So slung on my back with muzzle down on my strong side ass cheek?

[Dan Sierpina]

Thanks Bishop. Agree it isn't a violation of the rules but personal preference is that I don't do it. :-)

Thermo... So slung on my back with muzzle down on my strong side ass cheek?

This is how I do it, the muzzle stays down as I loosen the VTac sling and pull the sling over my head. I'm slow, and have no illusion on being at the top of the results.

[thermobollocks]

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. I've started using the quick release buckle, instead, since both of my slings have them, but muzzle down over the strong side asscheek can also get you into a slung supported position.

[bushmeat]

Wouldn't slinging rifle "muzzle down over the strong side ass cheek" risk snagging the pistol out of the holster?

[MarkCO]

Wouldn't slinging rifle "muzzle down over the strong side ass cheek" risk snagging the pistol out of the holster?

Yes, and why I don't like to do it with the pistol holstered. But a quick release buckle helps.

Edited December 5, 2015 by MarkCO

[thermobollocks]

Wouldn't slinging rifle "muzzle down over the strong side ass cheek" risk snagging the pistol out of the holster?

That's exactly why I use an active retention holster.

[bishop414]

Wouldn't slinging rifle "muzzle down over the strong side ass cheek" risk snagging the pistol out of the holster?

That's exactly why I use an active retention holster.

+1. I use retention holster as well.

[Langenator]

Thanks Bishop. Agree it isn't a violation of the rules but personal preference is that I don't do it. :-)

Thermo... So slung on my back with muzzle down on my strong side ass cheek?

This is how I do it, the muzzle stays down as I loosen the VTac sling and pull the sling over my head. I'm slow, and have no illusion on being at the top of the results.

That's how I've always done it as well. At least one club that I've shot at required rifles be muzzle down (and unloaded/no mag) when slung. (The same club also banned the use of single point slings.)

Getting un-slung was easy with my AR. Required a bit of contortion when I was using my Garand.

[Bryan 45]

Muzzle down is faster in my opinion, but I only sling muzzle down if I don't have to worry about getting my muzzle in the dirt. (only standing positions before unslinging). Go to :44 in this video-

If I have a lot of movement or kneeling/prone before being able to go to the rifle, I sling muzzle up. And there's still a good way to not show everyone the business end of the barrel. Go to 1:24 in this video.

[MarkCO]

Nice Bryan.

[ericm]

Unfortunately, this is the same type of "unloaded stick" ruleset that I talked about earlier in this thread.

Go to just before they start yelling "horn, horn"

It can happen just that fast......

ericm

[ericm]

....and these sticks appear to have a "magazine stick" inserted into the "unloaded stick".....

ericm

[Bryan 45]

You are correct, Eric. That was the rule on slung guns. RO visually verified clear chamber, bolt was closed, magazine was inserted.

I didn't use that video as an example because it's not the polite way to unsling. But it is a good reminder I need more practice with my manners.

[Jadeslade]

Ft. Benning 3 Gun last weekend had a number of slung rifle stages, including climbing a wall with slung rifle and an unloaded pistol, then going on hands and knees under wire to get to shooting position. And one where you run out of rifle bullets and transition to pistol in a shoot house. And the rifle stayed slung. All were really excellent, competitive stages, and no safety issues were noted. Dirt in a barrel isn't necessarily a problem. Slinging a rifle is an art, in a way. It should be practiced. It's 2015,and uh, rifle shooting has progressed, and slings are important. Some slings suck and should be avoided. Some are just right. Learn to sling and unsling your rifle. Maybe if the match director can't use a sling very well, they should leave that out of the match. Having very competent ROs who are used to slung rifles is also necessary. The rifle slinging at Ft. Benning was integral to the running of the stage and not just an add on to have a "slung rifle stage". Competitors were given notice and a suggestion to practice with their slings prior to the match. We had loaded guns slung on one stage at Ft. Benning, so never is not operative.

The best way to sling a rifle is two-point over your shooting shoulder, with the ability to loosen or tighten it with an easily grabbed tab. There are a couple of brands of best of kind. You can push it way to the rear if you want it really out of the way, but the best sling holds your rifle in a position where it is out of the way, but can be easily mounted to shoot.