Considering ditching LnL and going blue. Pricing of setup 650 vs 1050

[RandyLahey]

Currently, I run a Lee loadmaster in 9mm, and a Hornady LnL AP for 40SW and 223(no casefeeder, base press). Having that basic case feeder on my Loadmaster has spoiled me. I also like how it primes on the same stroke as all of the other work.

Either I go all in on the LnL and buy a case feeder or I'm going to sell it, and go blue. I have no brand loyalty other than I want something that works well. The Loadmaster works fairly well, but I do get some occasional primer issues(tipped, missing etc..). The LnL I'm still pretty new at running it, so I don't think it's fair to blame all of the tinkering I do on the press. I need about 2k-4k of 9/40 a month, and 4-5k of 223 a year. So high volume isn't my need, but time savings is. I just don't have several hours a week to make ammo, even though I would enjoy it if I could devote more time to reloading, it's just not realistic, at least during the non winter months in IL. Too much going on with the family etc...

My LnL had to go back to Hornady when I first got it for indexing issues. Those were fixed, but I'm not sure which way I want to go. I like some things about that press, but wonder if I'm missing out on a better press in the 650. When I think about the 650 and what I consider for that press it would be mandatory for me to get the case feeder, if I'm not mistaken, you are near $800-900 with various bits. I'd also want an inline Fab handle as that was worth the $$$ on the LnL for sure. At that price point I start to wonder if maybe I should just go whole hog and get the 1050 as running 223 would be NICE on that press. But then I get concerned with changeover times, costs etc... I'm really confused on what to do. I know everyone is different etc... and what someone's needs/wants may not line up with another person's. I guess I'm just seeking opinions. I also get worried I'd be one of the unlucky people with the daisy chain primer explosions with the Dillon 650 .

PS for the blue advocates, which press would you recommend, why, and what would normal setup costs be for each press? I can find the retail prices, but I'm talking about all of the hidden costs like little bits here and there, caliber conversions, tool heads etc... For the 1050 I'd probably just move dies and not get extra heads, but I'd still need the shell plates, extra powder measure etc... I'm good on dies, have 2 sets(lee and Hornady) for each caliber I load. I'd also probably keep my Loadmaster as they aren't worth that much, and for whatever reason that little homely bastard has earned my respect and I'll find some jobs for it, or keep it dedicated to a caliber I shoot less frequently. If I can't figure out why my 9mm M&P can't hang in accuracy with my M&P40 I'll probably switch most of my pistol work over to my 40.

Edited June 12, 2015 by RandyLahey

[ringer]

I have a LnL and load 9mm and 223 with a case feeder. The change over is very simple and quick and it works very well once dialled in. As you already have a LnL it would be worth buying a case feeder and trying it. If you like it, keep it and you're done. If not, sell it and get a 650/1050.

[RenoShooter]

650 hands down. Although the 1050 is an awesome machine and very robust it doesn't really out produce the 650 in rounds per hour if you're pulling the handle manually. Also, everything costs so much more for tool heads, change over parts, etc. But finally, for all the cash involved in a 1050 it doesn't come with the Dillon Lifetime No BS Warranty like the 650 does.

But that's my take on it. I've loaded on both.

[Boxerglocker]

Based on your said requirements the XL650 would suit you well for LOADING both .223 and 9mm.

However, rifle is a 2 stage loading process, brass prep and then loading.

I started loading .223 with a XL650, for the first couple thousand rounds it was fine... hand swaging military crimp brass with a super swage. I quickly realized that swaging brass in a separate step just was very inefficient. I bought a 1050 and haven’t looked back.

I know fully process all my .223 brass in 4-5K batches on the 1050 with a RT1200, then load it on the XL650. I have found complete conversions / cleaning / lubing the press not to be too bothersome. It take me about 45-60 minutes.

I leave the press set up for brass processing for a couple weeks then convert it back to 9mm. I really like loading 9mm on the 1050 as the swaging helps alleviate stoppages when I come across any military crimped 9mm.

[Butterpuc]

Time savings was also my biggest issue and I don't reload/shoot as much as you. Earlier this year I made the switch. I had great success with my LNL AP with case feeder, but I wanted it to be faster. I went all in and bought the 1050 with MBF. Now I can load a years worth of ammo in 6-8 hours or so (of course excluding caliber conversion change overs, reloading primers, ...).

It was a tough pill to swallow but I have not regretted it at all.

Btw, priming on the down stroke is something to dream about!

[polizei1]

I have a 650 with bullet/case feeder. I want to upgrade to a 1050 for two reasons, priming on the down stroke and swaging. If you have the money, I'd go 1050 for sure.

[Hi-Power Jack]

you have an LnL it would be worth buying a case feeder and trying it. If you like it, keep it and you're done. If not, sell it and get a 650/1050.

+1. KISS.

[jmorris]

I pretty sure I could buy 4 LNL's for the price of one 1050, and get 1500 "free" bullets. That said I have more than one 1050 and have sold more than one LNL.

[12glocks]

A case feeder will turn a press into a whole different animal. I hear that Hornady has excellent costumer service much like Dillon (they have to right). Unless you really do not like the LnL I would add a case feeder and see if you can get it running good. After a few thousand rounds and a couple of change overs you should know if you like it. I have 3 friends running them and nobody hates them that I know of.

I have a 650 and I feel like I made a good choice. It is a pleasure to use. If you look in a blue press the price of the 650 as it sits in the pic is $1129. Add a couple of conversion kits and a power trimmer and you will be well north of $1500.

I would like a 1050 dedicated to 223 but it's a lot of money to spend.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

[LilBunniFuFu]

I had a lnl without a case feeder, now I have a 650 with a case feeder. Honestly I was almost add quick with the Hornady as I am with the 650. It's just that blue kool-aid gets to you. Honestly with the primer pockets on military 223 I would go all in a 1050. Less to worry about.

[ChevelleDave]

I just upgraded to a 1050 from a 650. On press swaging and priming on the downstroke are worth a lot to me, but the adjustable primer depth is awesome as well. Plus, if You've ever pulled the handle on a 1050, You don't know what You're missing.

If You can swing it, 1050 with mr. bulletfeeder all day long.

[stick]

Is time that important to you?

Let me start by saying I had a loadmaster for all of one week. Nothing but primer issues. I got frustrated and drank the blue cool aid. I've never looked back!

I have a xl650 and load 9mm and 223 on it now. The changeover with a changeover kit from 9mm to 223 takes me about 2 minutes as they both take small primers.

I prep all my rifle brass on a Frankfort prep station first.

I also still have my little Turret press that I reload 45acp, 243 win & 308 win on.

[rtp]

Dunno - I saw your thread on ar15.com, and also saw Hornady took care of your timing issue for you (as they should have).

Are you sure you're looking for and expecting real benefits in going from the LnL AP to a 650, or you have a few initial setup issues to work through (on the LnL, most of which are pretty easy, your initial timing issue excepted) so are picturing 'out of the box, no setup or issues' 'nirvana' with a 650? (Dillons will have their own setup and quirks, as well.. ).

I've got friends w/Dillons, and while the 650 is a nice press, I haven't seen anything that would have me trading my LnL AP for one, including if it were a no $/straight trade.

The only benefit on a 650 I see is the case feed path uses some caliber specific pieces to it, vs the Hornady being more generic and adjustable. Hornady has made some silent changes to their case feeder over time (which uses the same feeder plate as Dillons; they interchange with each other). If you dig a bit, you'll see people w/Dillons also running into initial setup/minor issues with their case feeders as well, so it's more or less a wash.

On the LnL case feeder, I cut up a pair of primer trays into two inserts - one for 9mm that narrows the depth front to back of the Hornady 'funnel' below the collator, which avoids any chances of 9mm or other short pistol cases lodging front to back in the funnel (it basically is a plastic 'V' cut to match the funnel V), and another I slide in on the left side that disallows .223 and longer rifle cases from lodging in the funnel sideways or having enough room to flip ends, so it won't see any jams nor wind up with cases mouth down. I also bent up a paper clip and looped it underneath the case feeder on the shuttle side of things, to more evenly push at the bottom of the cases. I haven't touched the case feeder to 'fix' anything in a damned long time now..

You'll find a few BE users that hated their LnL for whatever reason - maybe it was a case of poor QC (it happens), they never really dialed their press in, or, well - dunno - but there aren't many, and meanwhile, Hornady has made ongoing improvements to their press, so it can be tough to decipher if someone with a LnL AP 5+ years ago is really worth listening to their issues at the time or now.

The only 'convincing' upgrade, for me, would really be the swaging capability of a 1050 - at which point I'd probably leave the LnL AP set up for 9mm and run .223 processing on the 1050.

If you're still running into any issues on your LnL AP, I'd create a separate thread on them and we can probably help you to get sorted.

[BeerBaron]

The 1050 is the daddy but only 1 year warranty and is going to cost a lot more to get setup and a lot more to change calibres etc.

My basic setup for a 650 goes like this and it's what works for me:

650 in calibre of choice (comes with no dies, but everything else you need, so you're covered for dies)

alloy roller handle (either dillon or inline if you like)

case feeder (it's a must have in my view)

light kit from inline

din dam for loaded round bin

bearing kit (or just buy the 2 washers and bearing from hardware store, enables you to snug down the shell plate just right)

spent primer output kit (can make you're own too)

extra primer tubes

spare parts kit

I don't use a strong mount and don't think one is needed (providing you have a stable bench and mount is securely). The tools you need come with it (basic versions) except for a wrench but you probably already have one. There's lots of other bling which is nice but not needed. Before blowing money on more 'upgrades' i'd be putting it towards a bullet feeder. With case feeder and bullet feeder you just have to keep topping it up and pulling the handle.

I didn't add the costs, best to price up those individual items yourself as prices vary from place to place, vendor to vendor. Off the top of my head I'd say that lot is under $1000 all up. Maybe even under $900.

[RandyLahey]

well I may be altering my plan. I still want a 650, but I may do a casefeeder on the LnL as well, and keep those two setup for 9 and 40 each. I don't run a ton of 223 so I'll just probably use the LnL for that caliber and buy processed brass so I can skip out on the painful primer swaging(have a Dillon super swager, but still a PIA). Get a Dillon trimmer for the trimming and batch process the brass at that point when I need more. I'm coming around to the LnL, but it's been a trying courtship.