Should certified range officers be clearly identified?

[NicVerAZ]

My question follows an incident at a level 1 match a while ago, where I was apparently the only RO on a squad with a few unclassified or fairly new shooters.

Two of these shooters were hogging the clock and did not know what they were doing. The issue was not just the bad range commands, which included phrases like "Do you understand the course of fire" but also the idiotic "Feel free to draw and take a sight picture".

One of the issues was that they were pushing the button immediately after the "Stand by" instead of waiting from 1 to 4 seconds. One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

There was an overall lack of authority and understanding of the rules to the point that I felt there was a clear lack of safety.

I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.

It was obvious that they were very unhappy with my way of running the clock and managed to get hold of the clock and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief while praying that no one would get hurt. Yet, I did everything by the rule book and in a non confrontational manner. This was not the first time I was doing the job either. I was obviously the only one who had the proper training.

I have also witnessed an incident where a brand new shooter insisted in a very intimidating manner to run the clock although he completely lacked basic knowledge of USPSA rules, let alone range commands.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

Edited June 11, 2015 by NicVerAZ

[ktm300]

One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

I don't see muzzle in the list of official range commands. The correct answer is STOP! if you are sure they broke it.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

No, the match director needs to run the match. If you talk to him and your issues are not resolved, find someplace else or another squad to shoot with.

[RenoShooter]

I would ask the match director to ensure each squad has a real RO. If the local club cannot identify enough of them it would be an opportunity to have an RO class.

[NicVerAZ]

One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

I don't see muzzle in the list of official range commands. The correct answer is STOP! if you are sure they broke it.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

No, the match director needs to run the match. If you talk to him and your issues are not resolved, find someplace else or another squad to shoot with.

I do know that "Muzzle!" is not a USPSA call but an IDPA call. I mean as in "they did not even say anything during or after".

As for not shooting there or changing squad, it is not always the option. Matches are not always easy to find and squads can't usually be left once you've started to shoot.

It's not really about me, or you, but about overall safety. I hate to say it, but it's not an if, it's a when something really bad is going to happen and the farther in the future, the better.

I feel that my idea of being able to clearly identify the sheriff in town would certainly help.

[motosapiens]

That's a very curious situation. We are fortunate here in that we have a number of certified RO's, and also a bunch of non-certified but competent folks. If you are not in any position of authority in the club it may not be easy to educate folks that are trying to avoid being educated. I think taking it up with the MD is the proper approach if you don't have the authority (official or unofficial) to right the ship.

Seems like most places have the opposite problem, where no one wants to run the timer.

[Nimitz]

One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

I don't see muzzle in the list of official range commands. The correct answer is STOP! if you are sure they broke it.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

No, the match director needs to run the match. If you talk to him and your issues are not resolved, find someplace else or another squad to shoot with.

I do know that "Muzzle!" is not a USPSA call but an IDPA call. I mean as in "they did not even say anything during or after".

As for not shooting there or changing squad, it is not always the option. Matches are not always easy to find and squads can't usually be left once you've started to shoot.

It's not really about me, or you, but about overall safety. I hate to say it, but it's not an if, it's a when something really bad is going to happen and the farther in the future, the better.

I feel that my idea of being able to clearly identify the sheriff in town would certainly help.

it sounds like you were concerned for safety at least some of the time ... under those conditions isues about it being hard to find another place to shoot or squad with don't even come up .... I simply would not shoot the match again. If you are willing to put up with that behavior after talking with the MD & nothing has been done then you've accepted the risk ...

as for having only certified ROs, not every club as enough to do that and while it's highly desirable I don't think there is a rule that mandates it for level 1 matches, is there?

and I'm with Moto, never been at a level 1 match where people were fighting over who got to run shooters through the CoF ... are you sure there was not other baboonery going on as well like the "Area 6 2 sec add-on" ...

Edited June 11, 2015 by Nimitz

[lcs]

My question follows an incident at a level 1 match a while ago, where I was apparently the only RO on a squad with a few unclassified or fairly new shooters.

Two of these shooters were hogging the clock and did not know what they were doing. The issue was not just the bad range commands, which included phrases like "Do you understand the course of fire" but also the idiotic "Feel free to draw and take a sight picture".

One of the issues was that they were pushing the button immediately after the "Stand by" instead of waiting from 1 to 4 seconds. One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

There was an overall lack of authority and understanding of the rules to the point that I felt there was a clear lack of safety.

I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.

It was obvious that they were very unhappy with my way of running the clock and managed to get hold of the clock and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief while praying that no one would get hurt. Yet, I did everything by the rule book and in a non confrontational manner. This was not the first time I was doing the job either. I was obviously the only one who had the proper training.

I have also witnessed an incident where a brand new shooter insisted in a very intimidating manner to run the clock although he completely lacked basic knowledge of USPSA rules, let alone range commands.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

You should address your concerns to the MD. He/she is the one who sets the standards for their matches.

[davsco]

tough situation. the MD should at least divvy up squads so competent, not necessarily certified, folk are available to run squads. when I have someone running me who doesn't handle the whole loading and unloading sequence correctly, or at least pretty close, I'll just stop him and walk him thru the correct process. if there were actually safety issues, I would assert myself into the RO role, hurt feelings or not.

[EEH]

Problem is, when it comes time to shoot a lot of people take a step back to see who is going to run timer and score pad..

Never run into what the OP was talking about. That's a good thing?

[PKT1106]

I think this might tie into a thread on the USPSA forums about "is it worth it to become an RO?"

I think as many people as possible should take the Level 1 RO class. Not all clubs are fortunate to have a certified RO for every squad, but there should be someone on each squad competent in the commands and aware of the safety aspects. The penalties can be worked out later.

[9x45]

Real simple, use your own clock. Sounds like these clowns should be all by themselves anyway. I've been shooting with the same bunch of guys for over 15 years and if someone brings a newbie in, they are responsible for him. The last thing you want is for these idiots to shoot themselves or someone else on your watch.

[JAFO]

If the club has a number of certified RO's, the MD would do well to ask them to squad after everyone else, distributing themselves so that each squad has at least one RO, preferably two. We are fortunate enough to be able to do this. There are also a lot of other non-club member shooters who are certified RO's and have no problem helping with RO duties (for example, when the club RO is shooting). As many have suggested, contact the MD for the club and explain the situation.

[ktm300]

One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.

I don't see muzzle in the list of official range commands. The correct answer is STOP! if you are sure they broke it.

My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?

This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.

No, the match director needs to run the match. If you talk to him and your issues are not resolved, find someplace else or another squad to shoot with.

I do know that "Muzzle!" is not a USPSA call but an IDPA call. I mean as in "they did not even say anything during or after".

As for not shooting there or changing squad, it is not always the option. Matches are not always easy to find and squads can't usually be left once you've started to shoot.

It's not really about me, or you, but about overall safety. I hate to say it, but it's not an if, it's a when something really bad is going to happen and the farther in the future, the better.

I feel that my idea of being able to clearly identify the sheriff in town would certainly help.

I see it a lot, something happens, someone doesn't like it, we need a new rule. In my opinion we have plenty of rules.

If these guys followed rules you wouldn't have an issue, so what makes you think they will follow a new rule?

The MD at the local club needs to know what is going on as it's their butt on the line. I guess I am lucky to shoot at a couple of clubs that have enough shooters that know which end is up.

[Sarge]

You can get an official USPSA RO shirt from TechWear. Talk to the MD about buying you one...

[GunBugBit]

Brand new shooter with a very intimidating manner? Wondering what that looks like.

[waktasz]

Next time, stand at the start position with your hand out in the "pay me" position until someone hands you the timer. Then throw it into the woods and GTFO of there. Sounds like a mess.

[Graham Smith]

It's not uncommon to find people running the squads at a L1 match who are not certified RO's and some do a really good job of it too. So limiting the job to actual RO's may mean that those few people are stuck doing the whole thing without a break.

I've been in a number of matches where certified RO's still yell that the range is going hot and ask if you understand the course of fire and use a few older variations on the commands. So that really doesn't shake me up either.

I can only recall one RO who used to buzz immediately and that was because he didn't know how to use our timer correctly. In this case it sounds like this squad is in the habit of buzzing without a pause. Not strictly by the book but not a huge issue. However, it is an indication that they have their own way of doing things.

But, when combined with the rest of the comments you made, this does not sound like a squad I would be happy with. And if the MD is as casual in their approach to things, it's probably not a match I would drive very far to attend.

[ktm300]

You can get an official USPSA RO shirt from TechWear. Talk to the MD about buying you one...

[Nimitz]

You can get an official USPSA RO shirt from TechWear. Talk to the MD about buying you one...

so do i take off my Sponsor's jersey when someone hands me the timer and put on the RO shirt and then return to wearing my Sponsor's jersey after I'm done .....

[MarkCO]

If you felt safety was at risk, you had an obligation to take it to the MD immediately. If the MD did not care, you had an obligation to leave and report it to NROI. There is a match here in Colorado I will not attend that has some safety issues. For profit and run their own rules. Safety is not accidental, it is intentional. As for the other parts, did you kindly explain the rules and proper commands? That seems like the best first step if safety issues are not present.

[teros135]

If you felt safety was at risk, you had an obligation to take it to the MD immediately. If the MD did not care, you had an obligation to leave and report it to NROI. There is a match here in Colorado I will not attend that has some safety issues. For profit and run their own rules. Safety is not accidental, it is intentional. As for the other parts, did you kindly explain the rules and proper commands? That seems like the best first step if safety issues are not present.

Mark is right. The duties of a RO can be summed up as safety - fairness - efficiency, in that order. Anybody who doesn't know what they're doing pretty much can't, by definition, manage a squad and a stage and a bay. Pure "timer holders" who don't have an idea about the responsibilities are set up to fail the rest of the squad and probably don't even know it. Sure, it may look like fun, but we all know there's a lot more to it.

I know that we can use non-certified staff at L1. However, they have the same responsibility as anyone else holding the timer. We should supervise them and train them in the right procedures from the start. There's no such thing as "local match" rules, but that's what we hear a lot around here ("That's no big deal, it's just a local match.")

I started out being trained and mentored by a certified RO, who was pretty straight with me about both the rules and the procedures. When I took the class I had a good start, and yet there was a whole lot more to know and a whole different level of awareness about what we're about. Then there's more learning as you go along, and I'm still seeking advise from more seasoned ROs. If you really want to do it right there's a lot to learn, but it's rewarding.

Nobody should ever hand a timer over to a newcomer, whether they're nice about it or just pushy. That's a built-in safety issue, in my book. How can they be responsible for anything, let alone safety (and fairness and efficiency) when they don't even now the sport? (Why is it we don't just hand them a GM card when they start? You gotta earn your way...)

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that using untrained and/or unqualified timer people is itself a safety issue. Something will happen, and then it's too late.

I'm with the crowd that says go to the MD and let him/her know what's going on; their response will tell you whether you should shoot there. And yes, reporting it to NROI is a clear option if things are really out of line. It's our sport, and we're all responsible for keeping it intact.

Edited June 12, 2015 by teros135

[Sturdy]

I would also like to know what an "intimidating new shooter" would look like. I'd probably deal with that to his face and leave the MD out of it.

[Sarge]

I would also like to know what an "intimidating new shooter" would look like.

Been shooting for years

Ex Military

LEO

Brags about reloading 1000 rounds an hour on his LEE turret press

Combat boots and a boonie hat

Talks about 3 gun non stop

Quotes "rules" off the top of his head

Can't shoot worth a damn in reality.

You know the type

[Sarge]

You can get an official USPSA RO shirt from TechWear. Talk to the MD about buying you one...

so do i take off my Sponsor's jersey when someone hands me the timer and put on the RO shirt and then return to wearing my Sponsor's jersey after I'm done .....

Just get something put on your jersey that says something like, "you might not realize it but I'm kind of a big deal".

[NicVerAZ]

I see how the most common answer is "go talk to the MD", which is all cute, fine and dandy but it is not always possible.

You basically can't run to the MD to snitch about someone being mean because he does not want to give the timer to someone who knows what he's doing.

Some clubs squad, others don't. In the latter case, it can be a total mess.

In this case, when a new RO is needed to run the stage, a quick visual clue would definitely be very helpful.

"Sorry, you do not seem to know what you are doing and I'm going to rip off that timer from your hand" does not always work when the idiot is a muscled up cop who thinks he's directing traffic and, for some reason, you do not feel like pissing off a cop.

The Unplanned Targets video was a serious wake up call. It seems to have happened at a Level 2 or 3 match. It is even more likely to happen at a Level 1 match. Whatever can be done to prevent this from happening at any level should be done.