Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

1911's used in SS Nationals...in order of finish?


Bruce

Recommended Posts

I would be interested in seeing what 1911 was used, by whom, in the SS Nationals over past several years. Is there such a list?

I know what TGO uses, and Nils shoots one from Matt McLearn, but what about the others? Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phil S. used a Springfield .40 that he'd won a while back. Dave S. used his Springfield .45 which is more or less a custom Operator. Rob L's gun is obviously a Springfield with the NM frame in .40. Nils J. was a .40 with an STI Rangemaster heavy frame cut back to regular length. Beyond that I don't know.

In the top 20 there were no 9mms or anyone shooting Minor. Only 5 shooters shot Minor in the top 50. High Lady Jessie D. used her Taurus chambered in .38 Super and shot Minor. The match stage designs definitely favored Major scoring and didn't give much advantage to having 10 rounds in the magazine unless you just wanted to hose targets. You were usually moving to the next array after 6-8 rounds fired.

Not to make any value judgements/statements but it seemed that among the higher classified shooters, most of them shot .40 because their "home" Division was Limited and they had invested time and resources into getting a .40 Single Stack to run the same ammo. As you went down from GM and M to the A,B,C,D shooters you started to see MUCH more concentration of .45 pistols. I switched to a .40 Trojan a week and a half before going in a panic because my primary .45 started puking and my backup gun was at the factory for work. My box stock Trojan ran without a hiccup and I wished I'd made the switch years ago for ease of ammo supply between Divisions.

On the squad I was on, every gun that had malfunctions was chambered in .45, though I believe that had more to do with poorly maintained magazines or poor QC on the ammo/reloads, not any fault of the pistols. That's why I can't understand why I'm not a GM yet...I load ammo like a GM! ;-)

Interesting side note, there were a lot of the top dogs shooting guns that had heavier dust covers or light rails. I assumed this was because of the added weight and recoil mitigation. While that may play a tiny part of it, I spoke with Springfield's Custom shop manager Dave Williams and he said that it had more to do with high round count guns eventually cracking around the dustcover area if they are the regular design. The heavier profile guns don't crack in this area. The Springfield NM frame is basically just the light rail frame without the picatinny rail cuts machined in. That would also explain why Matt Mclearn used a Rangemaster STI frame cut down for Nils J's pistol.

Hope this long-winded post has some interesting info! I really enjoyed SS Nats this year! Oh, and I'm a total gear head...

Cheers623

DVC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a TRP and a Trophy Match. My understanding is these both have the national match frames (serial prefixes are also NM), is this the same as the national match frames they are using? Mine are standard dust cover no rails.

On the malfunctions on 45, you said you think mostly magazine maintenance and ammo. Do most of the top guys bring enough mags w them that they don't have to do maintenance in between stages? I've only got six mags and have considered buying at least six more. I read one guys post who said he takes enough he never even has to reload before finishing a comp. that's a lot to invest so wondering what's common.

On ammo did it seem like something that simple cycling them all through thr gun could have solved? Last weekend I had some ammo issues, thankfully on clearing the chamber at end. Turned out my seating depth while correct for my gauge and data was a little long for that particular gun (was shooting my backup). Now I'm going to cycle every round for a match through the gun I'm shooting

Thanks. Great info

Red

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i ran a Sig max .45. I had a light trigger job done, S&A magwell and some spring changes but basically the way you buy it other than that and the gun ran flawless the entire match and I didn't do any mag cleaning at all. Finished 15th overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a picture of SA's NM frame on their website somewhere. It's very square and blocky. I think the TRP and Trophy match frames have National Match slide rail specs but are not the same as the one SA Custom shop is building Leatham's gun on. If you go to this site and click the tab for "Single Stack Classic" you'll see exactly what I'm describing: http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom/

Magazine-wise, I think it's luck of the draw. If you happen to not ditch your mags in a sandy spot or mud you're probably fine with 5-6. PASA had lots of grassy range surface but as the weather deteriorated thru the week everything got more problematic. I usually come to matches with 6 mags and think I'm covered for most anything. The Single Stack Nats this year, and I assume most years, is designed around lower round counts. Highest round count for a stage was 22 rounds. Basically 4 mags would have been enough.

I've only ever shot local club matches in my Area. This was my first National match or even level III match. I shot my last-minute purchased STI Trojan, Wilson 10mm mags, and used my Limited .40 loads. Came in 53rd overall and 2nd "B" overall. I learned more in that one match than a year of shooting club matches and plan on making SS Nats a regular thing! Highly recommended.

Cheers623

DVC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phil S. used a Springfield .40 that he'd won a while back. Dave S. used his Springfield .45 which is more or less a custom Operator. Rob L's gun is obviously a Springfield with the NM frame in .40. Nils J. was a .40 with an STI Rangemaster heavy frame cut back to regular length. Beyond that I don't know.

In the top 20 there were no 9mms or anyone shooting Minor. Only 5 shooters shot Minor in the top 50. High Lady Jessie D. used her Taurus chambered in .38 Super and shot Minor. The match stage designs definitely favored Major scoring and didn't give much advantage to having 10 rounds in the magazine unless you just wanted to hose targets. You were usually moving to the next array after 6-8 rounds fired.

Not to make any value judgements/statements but it seemed that among the higher classified shooters, most of them shot .40 because their "home" Division was Limited and they had invested time and resources into getting a .40 Single Stack to run the same ammo. As you went down from GM and M to the A,B,C,D shooters you started to see MUCH more concentration of .45 pistols. I switched to a .40 Trojan a week and a half before going in a panic because my primary .45 started puking and my backup gun was at the factory for work. My box stock Trojan ran without a hiccup and I wished I'd made the switch years ago for ease of ammo supply between Divisions.

On the squad I was on, every gun that had malfunctions was chambered in .45, though I believe that had more to do with poorly maintained magazines or poor QC on the ammo/reloads, not any fault of the pistols. That's why I can't understand why I'm not a GM yet...I load ammo like a GM! ;-)

Interesting side note, there were a lot of the top dogs shooting guns that had heavier dust covers or light rails. I assumed this was because of the added weight and recoil mitigation. While that may play a tiny part of it, I spoke with Springfield's Custom shop manager Dave Williams and he said that it had more to do with high round count guns eventually cracking around the dustcover area if they are the regular design. The heavier profile guns don't crack in this area. The Springfield NM frame is basically just the light rail frame without the picatinny rail cuts machined in. That would also explain why Matt Mclearn used a Rangemaster STI frame cut down for Nils J's pistol.

Hope this long-winded post has some interesting info! I really enjoyed SS Nats this year! Oh, and I'm a total gear head...

Cheers623

DVC

That is some great info! Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a picture of SA's NM frame on their website somewhere. It's very square and blocky. I think the TRP and Trophy match frames have National Match slide rail specs but are not the same as the one SA Custom shop is building Leatham's gun on. If you go to this site and click the tab for "Single Stack Classic" you'll see exactly what I'm describing: http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom/

Magazine-wise, I think it's luck of the draw. If you happen to not ditch your mags in a sandy spot or mud you're probably fine with 5-6. PASA had lots of grassy range surface but as the weather deteriorated thru the week everything got more problematic. I usually come to matches with 6 mags and think I'm covered for most anything. The Single Stack Nats this year, and I assume most years, is designed around lower round counts. Highest round count for a stage was 22 rounds. Basically 4 mags would have been enough.

I've only ever shot local club matches in my Area. This was my first National match or even level III match. I shot my last-minute purchased STI Trojan, Wilson 10mm mags, and used my Limited .40 loads. Came in 53rd overall and 2nd "B" overall. I learned more in that one match than a year of shooting club matches and plan on making SS Nats a regular thing! Highly recommended.

Cheers623

DVC

I have 3 of the old NM serial numbered frames {before they said made in Brazil} and none have that step. Is that the way new NM frames look?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a picture of SA's NM frame on their website somewhere. It's very square and blocky. I think the TRP and Trophy match frames have National Match slide rail specs but are not the same as the one SA Custom shop is building Leatham's gun on. If you go to this site and click the tab for "Single Stack Classic" you'll see exactly what I'm describing: http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom/

Magazine-wise, I think it's luck of the draw. If you happen to not ditch your mags in a sandy spot or mud you're probably fine with 5-6. PASA had lots of grassy range surface but as the weather deteriorated thru the week everything got more problematic. I usually come to matches with 6 mags and think I'm covered for most anything. The Single Stack Nats this year, and I assume most years, is designed around lower round counts. Highest round count for a stage was 22 rounds. Basically 4 mags would have been enough.

I've only ever shot local club matches in my Area. This was my first National match or even level III match. I shot my last-minute purchased STI Trojan, Wilson 10mm mags, and used my Limited .40 loads. Came in 53rd overall and 2nd "B" overall. I learned more in that one match than a year of shooting club matches and plan on making SS Nats a regular thing! Highly recommended.

Cheers623

DVC

I have 3 of the old NM serial numbered frames {before they said made in Brazil} and none have that step. Is that the way new NM frames look?

From what I can tell on their website, it looks as though they have a NM frame and a "Heavy" NM frame. The link I posted above lets you look at the Single Stack Classic gun that is built on their Heavy NM frame. Look at the pic.

Cheers623

DVC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KSwift the way they do it is Springfield supplies base guns to some of the top pistol builders in the U.S. To build them into the prize table guns if the top 16. The only thing is is you must be shooting a Springfield Armory gun to be eligible or win HOA. If you are second overall and are shooting say a Caspian frame, you get a Mil Spec. Now the guy who is in 10th may get a 4000.00 custom gun where second gets 600.00. Springfield really donates a ton to the match but they way it is distributed isn't that fair at least not for a USPSA Nationals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KSwift the way they do it is Springfield supplies base guns to some of the top pistol builders in the U.S. To build them into the prize table guns if the top 16. The only thing is is you must be shooting a Springfield Armory gun to be eligible or win HOA. If you are second overall and are shooting say a Caspian frame, you get a Mil Spec. Now the guy who is in 10th may get a 4000.00 custom gun where second gets 600.00. Springfield really donates a ton to the match but they way it is distributed isn't that fair at least not for a USPSA Nationals.

AH, thanks. Very interesting, kind of surprised USPSA allowed that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SS Nationals is a SA Nationals. The reason .40 is popular is mag reloads don't have to be "slammed in". I had to cancel again, because of my totally erratic schedule, but truly a Single Stack Match originally sustained and supported by the Single Stack Society has bowed to pressures from USPSA-there used to be no super squads, the prize table was not Springfield Armory centric. This is why there's a lot of guys like me who will shoot any match signing up for it, but you don't see a lot of top shooters choosing to go anymore. It's kind of like a sort of "SS Nationals", as run by Springfield Armory", and ad hoc rules, because we are a "private range". In my mind a single stack gun as envisioned by John Browning is a Colt .45, with or without a grip safety. Anything else is bastardized version. It's a great match, rains a lot, and I know the area well. Big family farm in Pisgah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6th Place - Springfield Loaded in 40sw N serial number... POS gun, POORLY built, but I got it for cheap and it runs.

45acp guns don't have to be "slammed in" either.. Run a Tripp mag. Problem solved, they have a longer body than the Wilson 47D. Besides, once Wilson's get broken in they're easy to seat.

40sw, flatter/faster recoiling, mags, especially Tripps, have very rigid feed lips which don't spread and cause mags to stick like 45acp mags do. I shoot limited so shooting one caliber works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did the whole match with 6 Tripp mags shooting a .40 Caspian. I think the highest round count was maybe 32, and a bunch were way less. So it's not like you needed 8 or 9 mags to run it. Pasa is mostly grass and some gravel. Not a lot of sand or loose dirt. So it's not like you're cleaning mags after every stage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems there is a little confusion about serial numbers with nm prefix and nm frames. All springfields made/finished in the us get an nm serial number. That does not automatically make it a nm (national match) frame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's very good to know. Mine definitely don't have the heavy frame. I'm going to the shoot in Arizona I'm guessing lots of sand. I use chip power mags haven't had any issues yet but will get a few extra as backups.

I appreciate the informations and the tips, I need to shoot a lot before November, I want everything dialed in

Red

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So if you are building the ultimate Single Stack gun what is it? What frame and caliber do you build?

For shooting nationals? or for shooting every other match? My ultimate ss gun would be an STI trojan, and spend all the rest of the money on beer, ammo and thai food.

Edited by motosapiens
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...