How slow are you pushing 55gr bullets?

[Steve RA]

If it fits within the rules of an organization then I cannot see a problem with it.

If you still don't like it, work to have the rule/rules changed !!!

[Stlhead]

If the match is worth a shit it will have targets out far enough to discourage mouse fart rifle loads, spinners, poppers, stars, and other fun stuff to keep people honest. If not then why even go?

[P.E. Kelley]

About the time I gave up running matches I had planned on having a (must shoot through to hit target) port with a chrono in it.

Knew it wouldn't work as one could just load a standard pressure round for that stage, but without a chrono the honor system can break down.

Yea, it is just a game and I love it, but I never even considered loading down to power factor. (won every single heavy metal match I finished for 6 years straight)

[AustinT]

I don't have the time or motivation to adjust my JP block for 2 loads, let alone load and keep track of two different 55gr loads.

[kellyn]

While I agree with Kurt's comments about light rifle ammo being a sign of the impending apocalypse, there are other reasons that I don't care for light ammo.

I think the rifles feel sluggish and "off" when shooting lighter loads even with adjustable gas blocks. Plus there is less gas to work the comp so I don't think there is even any advantage whatsoever. And there is the fact as Austin said, you're trying to manage 2 loads which can be a pain.

[LikesToShoot]

I'm with Steve, if it's within the rules why not?

Stages designs can influence choke and shot shell choices why not rifle ammo?

Start a hose fest close rifle stage with 55gr light loads, change to the "blue" base pad mag & 55gr regular loads for long shots and if need be change to the "red" base pad mag with the 77gr loads for longer shots.

To save bullets and powder I've practiced with .22LR conversions in my rifle and pistol.

The other plus was not needing to recover the brass.

[Bryan 45]

A lot of guys practice w/ 22LR conversions. But practice and matches are two different things.

*the following opinions are mine and not to be construed as fact other than in my own head:

It's a real damn shame the same range lawyer attitude that has ruined both USPSA and IDPA is becoming prevalent in 3 Gun. I love the 4 page rule set of most outlaw matches and I think the "if it doesn't say I can't, then I can" attitude has lead to a lot of innovation. But it appears to me now that this is also going to be the downfall of the sport.

Practical shooting! Unless we start using gophers as targets, 22mag level loads have no place in practical shooting- whether it's not specifically prohibited by the rules or not.

[bmiller]

I like airsoft, bbs are more available than 22 ammo, and a lot less misfires . Will dents count on cardboard targets? (my feeble attempt at humor)

Edited April 15, 2015 by bmiller

[dauntedfuture]

I suppose that when I read this post the question asked was a more technical as opposed to philosophical one; The question asked is how slow you can push a 55 and get your rifle to work as opposed to the merits there of.

[Alaskapopo]

I'm with Kurt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[toothandnail]

Come to our match, I doubt anyone will be using .22mag spec loads - well not after the first one anyway

Seems to me it's the stage design that's pushing the light loads/bullets, if all a guy is doing, is shooting paper at 25-50 yds. Why use a hot load?

Same can be said about pistol loads as well.

At a match last year, a couple of guys got mad because we were shooting 1145fps ammo in our SG, they had to use 1300-1350's just to get their custom $$$ gun to run.

Set Up a stage that the light stuff won't work, or at least make it so the guy has to count rounds and load mags accordingly. If he wants to do 3 mag changes in a stage , go right a head. Not my problem if your load can't activate the target as a hit.

We only go to a couple matches a year with the all close hoser targets, not my kind of match.

BUT , I do change my setup to fit the style of match to whatever I think will give me an advantage within the allowed rule set.

[mertbl]

I don't know if you guys listen to the 3 gun show podcast but in the interview with Travis Gibson he mentions running 35 gr frangible bullets at 2400 fps for the pro series. I found it interesting.

I'm also firmly in the camp of "if it doesn't say I can't, then I can"

[outerlimits]

I can't believe 3 gun nation doesn't allow .410's...just sayin

[Dewberry]

I can't believe 3 gun nation doesn't allow .410's...just sayin

you can use 20 ga. if you want. just saying

[Dannybot]

2300 FPS in my 10.5" MK18 clone. I mostly run a suppressor so I wanted a low pressure round. It only runs 150-200 FPS slower than Freedom, UMC, and AE 55's. From same gun. All those rounds are around 2700 FPS in an M-4 clone (14.5")

[thermobollocks]

I recently went down to 3100 fps from 3300 fps. I've got some garbo 55s only running at 2900 fps for inside of 50 yards though.

[dauntedfuture]

Holey smokes, what are you using to drive 55s to 3300?

[DocMedic]

26.2 grains of benchmark pushed my sierra game kings 55gr almost to 3400 fps

[thermobollocks]

AA2230 will get it done.

I found out the primer pockets only lasted a couple loadings though

[Dr Mitch]

Slow 55s only seems a legitimately plausible advantage for short rifle ranges. In that instance it sounds like it makes sense. I'm not sure how many regular 3-Gun matches allow distances past 50 or even 100 yards. My local match, which is Kurt's local match, is reduced to 40 yards at best since 2013. It makes the very idea of the match boring, although the stages are being designed well and are still really fun. I've considered adjusting my zero from 200 yds to 30 yds due to the super-short distances, and now I might consider pussing out my rifle loads to gain another edge. There doesn't seem to be a point in being set up to run past 50yds in Oklahoma, and it makes me wonder how local matches are set up elsewhere. Maybe pussed out rifle loads and short distance rifle zeroes will be the new norm.

[redial]

For someone who went Distinguished with the M14 (Lake City 173s) and the 1911 (230 Hardball), the idea of downloaded 223s is darned amusing. We dinosaurs are pretty easily amused, I guess but it wasn't always "just a game" for me.

Don't mind me .... carry on ;-)

Mark

[Willz]

A lot of guys practice w/ 22LR conversions. But practice and matches are two different things.

I do this at local steel challenge to practice transitions with my 3 gun rifle. It's not ideal for SC, I won't win over a dedicated SC gun but it's fun. Although I do get funny looks when my Vortex 1x6 comes out and my 50 round drum.

I've shot one3 gun match which had shots out to 400 yards. So I loaded up some 77 gr Nosers.

I now have gone full retard and have a JP low mass BCG and adjustable gas block and JP captured spring.

I'm keeping the 77gr load and adjusting the rifle to the lowest gas needed to cycle.

I know this is not optimizing the low mass/gas system but it works.

The load is accurate and works well in my gun.

When I get to the point I need mouse fart loads to get an edge on Horner or Miculek then I'll worry about those loads. Until then I'll run what works in my set up.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Willz

[naim]

I've been shooting 3gun "seriously" for the past couple of years. I honestly had no idea there was a pf for any of the guns. I always just assumed you needed enough to knock down the steel targets. If it's an issue it needs to be addressed better at the matches.

Now with that said I have one load for my 69gr and use the same powder charge for my 55gr. It makes things easier for loading 223 and by my calculations I'm at about 151pf with the 55gr.

[toothandnail]

Slow 55s only seems a legitimately plausible advantage for short rifle ranges. In that instance it sounds like it makes sense. I'm not sure how many regular 3-Gun matches allow distances past 50 or even 100 yards. My local match, which is Kurt's local match, is reduced to 40 yards at best since 2013. It makes the very idea of the match boring, although the stages are being designed well and are still really fun. I've considered adjusting my zero from 200 yds to 30 yds due to the super-short distances, and now I might consider pussing out my rifle loads to gain another edge. There doesn't seem to be a point in being set up to run past 50yds in Oklahoma, and it makes me wonder how local matches are set up elsewhere. Maybe pussed out rifle loads and short distance rifle zeroes will be the new norm.

NOT at our matches, you can shoot however light a charge you want, but you better have something that will reach 500 & 600 yds in your range bag.

Also if you can't activate the flashers at 200 with a 40gr 900fps load - won't bother me in the least

[P.E. Kelley]

Somehow I was able to take 2nd (93+% of AMU Hotrod Joel Turner) at the 2015 USPSA Multigun Nationals (Limited)

I used 50 grain Vmax bullets at 3000 and I don't think anyone would accuse me of slow splits and I got first round hits

in the wind at 400 yards.

Master the fundamentals of marksmanship as a first priority. The "fluff" helps much more after you have that in your tool bag.