2015 Brownells Rockcastle Pro Am 3 Gun Chamiopship - Official

[Ryan N]

This is my 3rd ProAm. I shot and worked the Pro side so all I can comment on is the Pro side. I enjoyed the stages and the overall match experience. I liked the options that some of the stages provided. I also felt like the stages provided a nice blend of speed and accuracy. Fat Tire on tap was also a nice surprise. A fellow shooter counted 39 guns on the Pro table. Another friend finished over 100th and still left with a nice Devil Dog Arms handguns and other tidbits. Pro match results were posted with great efficiency and I was on the road headed home before 2pm even after going through the FFL process.

Vendors row was a little I on the ight side this year compared to last year. I also missed the side matches.

My next match is Blue Ridge 3 gun. I have no issues with it being at Rockcastle.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ryan N

[wgj3]

Don't think you can compare ProAm to Blue Ridge. Competely different matches and advertised in a completely different fashion. I bet that you get exactly what you expect from Andy and crew at Blue Ridge...

[cold]

Better call Saul... I mean Sole.

Edited August 27, 2015 by cold

[Mike41]

This was my 3rd year attending the match and first year shooting it. The stages were kept on schedule except for our last stage on Saturday and it was only a few minutes behind. RO's were nice and did a good job of keeping things moving. I liked the shooter option stages and the mixture of bay vs. field stages.

The side matches were missing but not sure I would have time for them. I did shoot the side matches the previous year's and the cave shoot was a highlight for sure. Not sure you can lay blame to Rockcastle for them missing though as I would guess this is vendor choice. Yes, there could have been better communication about this but the priority was putting on a match. I think everyone has been spoiled with the previous year's vendor participation but consider that many have flat sales and less profit plus there are a lot more 3 gun matches to shoot than 4 years ago so vendors have to pick or spread their items across several matches.

As far as the prize table goes where else can you come in 98th place and get something. Most sports reward the top 3 places and call it a day. I consider it a bonus to get something in addition to just competing in the match. Again we have been spoiled.

Also, if you would like to see a better prize table how would feel about a higher entry fee to cover this cost? For what I paid in entry fees and to shoot the stages I shot and get the prizes I got I think I got a bargain!

In regards to the stages that Gary and crew put together I don't think you could please everybody. If more challenging then novices will complain about them being too difficult or they timed out on 2 stages. If too easy the more experienced will complain that they were not challenging enough. Same complaints in the Sporting Clays game!

I hope that the staff can take some of comments and improve the match as best they can but I also hope they ignore some of what I consider spoiled people complaining. Sorry if I offend anyone.

Let's hope for a better 2016 match but I would gladly shoot another 2015 type match!

Mike

[ROCKCASTLE1]

Sorry folks, been in the car the last few days and couldn't reply, but have enjoyed reading all of the feedback, good and bad. Obviously we like to know the things that are wrong with the match, and the things that are right.

As many of you know, there is a ton of stuff that goes into organizing any match, especially the big ones. We are already working on the match for next year, and it's looking good. Yes, we will start announcing some major sponsors and title sponors, as their bugets get finalized and sponsor contracts are signed. Hopefully now that the new website is up (woefully late) there will be a better communication platform in the future.

I would like to thank those that gave so much to make it happen. Linda Chico in stats and registration, Gary Welborn for designing stages and planning how to put them on the ground, along with all of the RO's that came up with Gary for weeks in advance to help build the stages. We would like to thank the Range Masters Joe Harris, and the entire Rockcastle staff. And a huge thanks to all of the range officers, who never fail to volunteer their time and efforts to make all the matches happen, not just ours.

And obviously, everyone should thank, and nobody forget the sponsors. Three of our biggest sponsors stepped up big time, Double Star, Adams Arms, and Brownells. There was an outstanding amount of sposnors that donted to the shooters, and deserve support from all of us, including: Kimber, Trijicon, Century Arms, CMT Tactical, Hornady, Rubber City Armory, Troy, Tru Spec, Devil Dog Arms, US Optic, Sig Saur, VooDoo Tactical, Mossberg, Samson MFG, DPMS, JP Rifles, Crucible Armament, Warne Scope Mounts, Benelli, Daniel Defense, Frog Lube, Hogue, XRAIL, Aralite, Mod 1, Nordic Comp, AP Custom, CMC Triggers, 5.11, Anderson MFG, Chamberveiw, Iron City Rifle Works, Kel Tec, Magpul, Oakley, Seekins Precision, Taran Tactical Exos Defense, TACCOM, WMD Guns, Hodgdon Powder, Practiscore, Cerakote, Gamaliel Shooting Supply, CMP Targets, KE Arms, Lantac, Sierra Bullets, Tri State Tactical, Vortex Optics, XS Sights, Hiperfire, Black Dove Customs. Hope I didn't miss anyone.

And we wnat to thank all of you that travel from near and far to compete in the match. We know there are great expenses invloved. We know we can't host a match without shooters. Even with some mistakes from time to time, we try to put on a match that everyone will enjoy. We apologize to those who did not, and hope to make it up to you next time.

So we would like to take a short time to address at least some of the forum comments, if we did all of them I'm sure nobody would read them. First, Rockcastle as the match organizers have control of things like the match staff, the stage design, the format, and things like that. We take the critism seriously, from those that shot the match. We know there are some things many did't like about those items, and a whole bunch really liked, as we have heard from both on the various medias and conversation we have held about the match. We will be working on all of it.

The things we do not control are the sponsors. They donate becasue they want ot support the sport and the shooters, and let people know about their products and services. We do not control which of those companies decise to send product and people to the match for side matches. We Always leave space for them on the map because some companies decide demo when they get there. It happens quite a bit. Some scheduled and had to back out of sending people to the match at the last minute. We post this stuff on enos and other medias beginning in January the last few years, and starting this month moving forward. I can tell you in January when most of the copy is written, as within my very first post, most of the sponsors are not nailed down, and side matches not determined. Most of the time it all works out. Some of the sponsors don't come in until the week before or days before the match, and thank god they do.

For those of you who don't think about the industry from a match management standpoint, it has changed on many levels, some of which have been talked about in this forum. To those of you wondering, the NRA really doesn't sponsor any matchs. They host matches like their match next month, Bianchi, and Camp Perry. In the past they have supported them a few times, but those are only specail occasions. There are several other compnaies that do not sponsor matches anymore, and they are not worth listing, becasue it's really ok. Many matches change top sposnors evey year, including 3 Gun Nation, BRM3G, the Pro Am, etc., and that's ok too.

Four year's ago there were only four or five big matches, now there are almost 20. That spreads the sponsors thin. Four years ago there were fewer "sponsored" 3 gun shooters, now there are hundreds. That spreads sponsorship thin. Four years ago there were record gun indutry sales, now they suck. That spreads sponsorship really thin. And it will not get better soon. Four years ago the major matches were all on TV, now they are not so much. That spread sponsors thin too. You will see some big changes in the way matches are supported in the future. We all need to be very thankful for those that continue to support, decide to support, or have always supported what we love to do.

Because there are so many matches, and everyone here most likely has a real job, both shooter numbers and RO numbers and availability are likely to change every year. Some up, some down. And that's also ok. It's just one of the things all the matches have to contend with moving forward.

We try to organize the Pro Clinics to help new shooters learn from the best, and to help the Pro Shooters gain exposure for their sponors who support the sport. We do not control who says yes or no. Many times we do not even know who will show up for the clinics until the week before, or days before, or hours before they happen. I think we can do a better job of working to determine that earlier, and I think it's important that we do so.

We do get and read every comment in the forum. They are important to us. And any of you can PM me any time if you you more specifc questions answered or need to be heard.

Again, the new website is active, and will stay up to date for the enitre year. We are adding some new features over the next few weeks. We will also be starting an new thread here as soon as possible for the match next year.

Thank you all for your participation, shooters, staff, and sponsors. Cheers to all of you!

[darkvibe]

No one told you at sign in, because we did not know. Found out there were no demos or side matches late during the day Friday.

Thank you for your hard work over the 4 years that I've attended. You are truly appreciated and your passion and commitment to making the experience for everyone attending great shows.

[Jesse Tischauser]

This just in...

A certain well known pro wins Open division. The prize table apparently started at 1230 instead of 1pm like the published schedule said. I don't know what time it started. I wasn't there. I actually left and donated my prizes to an upcoming junior shooter benefit match because I don't shoot for the prizes. I just shoot for fun.

So back to the story.. with no announcement that anyone saw. About a time change Said pro went to lunch, got back about 1pm to find that nobody walked for him and 2nd place open took the top prize which was a $2000+ Benelli pro shop M2.

Shooter comes up to the FFL room with two pmags in his hands asking wtf happened

Edited August 27, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

I must say the ROs on the pro side were excellent. No range nazi stuff at all and lots of jokes and nothing but good calls all weekend. Plus not a single one laughed at my shooting. The guys on stage two made the best of their situation being short one guy and not having binoculars to call hits on the longest steel in the match.

Linda also did a gear job as usual. Ken Nelsons badass scoring program had scoring updates faster then I could get internet.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[ToysRUs]

This just in...

A certain well known pro wins Open division. The prize table apparently started at 1230 instead of 1pm like the published schedule said. I don't know what time it started. I wasn't there. I actually left and donated my prizes to an upcoming junior shooter benefit match because I don't shoot for the prizes. I just shoot for fun.

So back to the story.. with no announcement that anyone saw. About a time change Said pro went to lunch, got back about 1pm to find that nobody walked for him and 2nd place open took the top prize which was a $2000+ Benelli pro shop M2.

Shooter comes up to the FFL room with two pmags in his hands asking wtf happened

I'm pretty sure by this copied post from said shooters Facebook Page he is ok with it all.

That's the kind of stand up guy he is. Plus he has more Benelli's than any one single person in the universe.....

"I would like to thank God, all my sponsors, and Diana and Laurence for being some of the best travel partners I've ever had. I was able to get a win in the Open division, and I'd like to give a shout out to Greg Jordan and Brian Nelson for shooting like raging death-stalkers as always. I'd also like to give a shout out to Team Benelli's Dianna Liedorff Muller for winning female Tac Optics and for Diana Hufstedler for wining female Open. Also I would like to thank Lisa Marie Judy and Mark Roth for salvaging a PMAG and a stripped Double Star lower for me off the prize table, because I was a little late and missed out on a Benelli shotguns M2 and some other killer prizes. Thank you to Nate and Nick Noble and all of their staff, especially Linda Chico for putting on great matches like the Brownells, Inc. Pro/Am 3-Gun Championship at Rockcastle Shooting Center. "

[Bryan 45]

I'm going to set a new goal in life-

I want, just once, to be labeled by Taran as a raging death-stalker.

[BigLucky]

I'm going to set a new goal in life-

I want, just once, to be labeled by Taran as a raging death-stalker.

Amen... good goal...

[jrbet83]

Got to love all the passive-aggressive drama....the hair gel and big sunglasses are fitting.

[LChico]

This just in...

A certain well known pro wins Open division. The prize table apparently started at 1230 instead of 1pm like the published schedule said. I don't know what time it started. I wasn't there. I actually left and donated my prizes to an upcoming junior shooter benefit match because I don't shoot for the prizes. I just shoot for fun.

So back to the story.. with no announcement that anyone saw. About a time change Said pro went to lunch, got back about 1pm to find that nobody walked for him and 2nd place open took the top prize which was a $2000+ Benelli pro shop M2.

Shooter comes up to the FFL room with two pmags in his hands asking wtf happened

First, the prize table did not start at 12:30 PM. I went out to the prize area from stats at that time, because Nick wanted to recognize the staff before starting. People were still walking around the table, looking at prizes. So I went back into stats. At 12:38, someone came to tell me they were really starting. (I was looking at my phone, because I was expecting a call). I went out again. Nick started with Thanks to the staff at Rockcastle, the MD, staff at the match, etc. Then Gary Welborn thanked Nick, Nate, Rockcastle staff, etc. Nick took back the microphone and began with discussing the wounded veterans who shot with staff and the Task Force Dagger squad, and Project 22's work against veteran suicide. He thanked True Spec for the staff uniforms. He then started with the top level sponsors & named them all from top to bottom - with the occasional personal thanks to a sponsor. Nick asked someone from Adams Arms to come up (I believe it was Eric who said a word or two) and then recognized Brownells & asked Larry Weeks to step up and say a few words. Thankfully, Larry said very few words. Then Nick called out the Trophy winners: HOA Open, HOA Tac Optics, High Lady, High Junior, High LEO, High Military & High Senior. They all walked up to accept the plaque & have their picture taken. (Well, to be honest, Tim Yackley and Di Muller RAN up to the stage & Taran was not there to pick up the plaque). He then explained how FFL transfers would work. . . After all that, he started to call out the order of finish prize table at around 5 minutes until 1PM. I had to walk away to take a phone call & 12:56 PM is the time recorded on my phone. Those who were there will remember how long all this took.

So, when you say the HOA Open shooter "got back about 1pm. . ." I'll assume you mean slightly AFTER 1 PM. And, yeah, the prize table did move pretty quickly. And when you write "Shooter comes up to the FFL room with two pmags in his hands asking wtf happened" -- that is not correct. I'm not saying that isn't what he may have been thinking - but Taran is a class act and was completely gracious, both to Nick and to me when he stopped into stats immediately afterward. I am sure his sponsors are proud of the way he conducts himself at matches while representing their companies.

Oh, and an hour before the prize table started, I'd sent an email message to everyone in the match, with the link to "Final Pro Match Results."

Sorry to all if I seem to be posting so late - getting ready for FNH USA 3 Gun. The week before a match is always the busiest for me.

Edited August 28, 2015 by LChico

[Jesse Tischauser]

Oh, and an hour before the prize table started, I'd sent an email message to everyone in the match, with the link to "Final Pro Match Results."

Not sure who you thought was monitoring social media or gun forums during the match.

Well apparently your score emails must be so much more visible then the new post notification emails this forum sends out when someone cancels a pro clinic.

Disappointed does not begin to cover it for me.

Just to confirm Taran did get screwed out of a $2500 shotgun? His sponsors must pay a lot better then mine if he was laughing about that one. Im sure he'll be back next year! Heck put me down on his 2016 squad now please. Maybe I can learn how to take a screwing with a smile on my face from him.

I love it when people suggest that by posting my discontent with this match or simply not pretending everything is always unicorn farts and rainbows all the time I'm going to loose all of my sponsors. Id trade all my sponsorship for keeping one shooter from wasting their time and money on attending this match next year.

Since I started in 2009 I always wondered why so many names came and went from the scores and faces disappeared from matches. It's situations and matches like this that make me realize why and leave me wondering why I continue to play this game.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[LChico]

Jesse - it is not always about you. I've known Taran longer than you have been shooting 3 Gun and he has always been courteous and pleasant. It's a shame I can't compliment Taran without you assuming it is intended to refer to you somehow. In his Facebook posting (quoted in an earlier post on this thread), Taran thanked a number of people and the BE forum member, ToysRUs, mentioned that Taran was a "stand up guy." He had only included a portion of Taran's post on Facebook. It concluded with "I cannot thank my sponsors enough for their continued support:

Bravo Company USA, LaRue Tactical, Trijicon, Inc. Vltor Blade-Tech Industries Federal Premium Ionbond Premium Firearm Coatings Precision Reflex Inc. (PRi) Weapon Shield Benelli Firearms Black Hills Ammunition"

[ClutchUSMC]

I've attended all 5 years. And likely have a combination of experiences that give me a unique perspective. The first year, the Larue BBQ, tons of side matches, 3gun yard sale, crazy year I shot it as a "regular guy" no sponsors, and it was one of the first 2-3 "major" matches I shot. The 2nd and 3rd years I worked as an RO, and by this time had the human billboard go fast shirt. I've even been the guy in the tent selling things like crazy with TK and fixing guns. By last year, I was working in the industry, attending the event with coworkers, worrying about our own sponsored shooters, and trying to help out at a vendor table as much as possible. This year I just went to have fun, and that I did.

Beyond all that, I have literately spent months of my life on the Rockcastle property. I shot Gary's club matches for several years. I've worked matches for and with almost all of the staff and consider them personal friends. I even talked fairly seriously with Nick and Nate about working for them a few years back. All that being said, here's my take on it:

1. Swag bags... really? I have buckets of that junk from years of matches, trade shows, etc. If you want it you're welcome to come get it. All of that stuff went to the prize table, I'd guess the swag bags went away because there weren't as many dollars to go around this year.

2. Vendors... Well most of us take time away from our day to day jobs to work a table and the company has paid for overtime, travel, food, etc. Now the feedback is great and getting to talk to shooters and provide that 1 on 1 time with the manufacturer is awesome. However, this is what we call "Show Season", with the majority of dealer and distributor trade shows going on during this time of the year. In fact, the NBS show was going on in Ft. Worth the same days we were shooting. And at the end of the day, its going to be fairly hard to even break even as a vendor at rockcastle. And hard to justify attending if you had to choose between it and a show with 500 dealers.

3. Side Matches... these were always run by match sponsors in the past, if less attend then there will be less side matches. And they were really cool, I remember shooting a .50 Beowulf full auto and meting Bill Alexander that first year. I bet I shot $20 worth of his ammo... still haven't bought that Beowulf though.

4. AM stages being stale... judging by the number of gofast shirts in the am match, some of you guys need to be on the other side to begin with... The AM side of the match is for new shooters with only a few club matches under their belt. It's not for a guy with 10k worth of race guns and a handful of sponsors. If it felt stale, maybe you should try the PRO side next year.

5. Match not running on time, I didn't see it. We shot within 10mins of our start time or earlier because we wanted to, for every stage on my squad. The ROs had much more down time than in years past. I had a great squad that hustled to set and paste.

6. Pro Stages... Most of us have been complaining about the level of difficulty for a few years. Go back and read previous threads and I know I said it. Gary gave it to us this year. With a couple of stages timing out a bunch of good shooters. I missed the last slug target with my first shot on one and ran out of time while reloading and I was shooting at the last pistol steel on the other as the timer went off. I hadn't shot a match or practiced in months before and shot a pistol I'd never fired before for days 2 and 3 and I engaged every target in the match before the par time. And honestly looking at the results and the percentage of people that timed out yes the par times on those 2 stages were a little short. However, we all asked for the bar to be raised and Gary did that.

7. Pro clinics, Idk I've never been to one and I'm certainly not good enough to teach one. I remember meeting some “big name” shooters that first year for the first time. It really made an impression on me how friendly and approachable they were. Even giving me tips and helping me with stage plans. It's a shame that there were people who didn't have that experience.

8. Sponsor Dinner... Feeding 500+ people is fairly expensive. Does anyone even remember who paid for it last year? Did you do more business with them because of it? Did you write them an email and say thanks? I know some of you will answer yes to those questions but most wont. I am a 3gun shooter, I love it, but in this industry I've just been through a layoff myself. We aren't seeing the crazy numbers we were in years past because of the political climate. We don't have all the extra money to throw at things like 3gun matches. At most you reach 750-1000 people at even the biggest match, most of them aren't your core customer, don't want to pay retail, etc. When for the same money you can get a million impressions on the Blaze or a 1/4 page in an NRA pub, it makes it hard to argue with your boss/marketing team/board whoever you answer too that you're spending the companies marketing dollars in the best way possible. If you want more sponsorship in this sport, show your appreciation. Be the guy posting on FB and tagging the company showing off your new prize, doing a range report, talking about how much you like it. Not the guy flipping it before he's even home for half of MSRP and not only undercutting the sponsor but all their dealers and distributors and in fact devaluing the thing they we're nice enough to give you.

9. Where can I find a match that has everything the pro-am had 5 years ago? It's still there, its still great people, great friends and a great time. That's what the pro-am is, seeing old friends, making new ones, surviving the Kentucky heat, and the Tennessee whiskey. Not to mention the fact that in 2010 there were about 8 “major” 3gun matches and now there are 4 or 5 times that, all competing for the same resources, same shooters, same market share, same sponsor dollars, etc.

[JRicks]

I'll disagree with those who thought the AM stages were stale. They weren't necessarily complicated, but I saw a LOT of shooters stopped by the buzzer. Maybe next year, the AMs will have more of those hoser rifle targets like the pros.

[GWelborn]

Thanks Tyler. I was beginning to wonder if the match I attended this past weekend was the same one on this thread. I was there from Monday through Sunday night and talked with hundreds of happy shooters.

I listened to their comments and criticisms and appreciate them all from old friends and new. Guys you don’t have to go home and post anonymous negatives two or three day after the match. We are right there and listening. I guess I’m old fashion but prefer face to face discussions. If your interest is to improve the match/sport that is the most effective means.

The match/Rockcastle staff are a tight bunch most of which come back every year. I did not witness a major dust-up or notice major tension as we gathered at the library each evening. I must admit my perceptions may have gotten a little dull.

The pro match finished early on Saturday again this year with most squads shooting an extra Sunday morning stage on Saturday.

We did get behind Friday on AM2 but think we ended the stage ~30 minutes behind. See Berry’s post. We have a bunch of shooters and not much time. It is going to happen.

The new MGM flashers worked great. I think they have a winner there. They are effective and inexpensive. If you didn’t get a chance to see them at the match check-em out on line. The yellow backer and black plates we used were highly visible. I only heard one negative there. If you read Jesse’s post on color blind shooters unable to see orange you know his advice was to not care. I am not willing to trash 8 percent (his number) of our paid entries or 8 percent of his sponsors customers.

Jesse I must admit I don’t usually read/view your videos/comments on enos but feel obligated to read everything on the ProAm. The only thing you said that I support is your promise not to return to Rockcastle but it is not my place to say that.

Whether or not I work the ProAm next year, best wishes to all.

[barrysuperhawk]

All of this discontent is how matches implode. Its amazing how, more than any other group, we absolutely eat our own without hesitation. That coupled with the fact that everything written on the Internet always sounds 100 times worse and more harsh than it was intended to be, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Jessie is very vocal, and when its in support of something like a certain brand of watch or his latest sponsors its an awesome thing to behold. The thing is, human beings don't typically have "off switches" so when an otherwise outspoken person is unsatisfied or feels things aren't right...guess what?

As far as Taran being gracious, of course he is, what else could he do? Its not like stomping his feet and yelling would have helped, and I suspect that trying to somehow insist on getting a specific prize would not have gone well either. That is why they are prize tables, not first prize, second prize, etc.

The problem is that there was not one big problem like an utter failure of the scoring process that a person can point to, it was the proverbial death of a thousand cuts. No swag bag, it's no big deal. No side matches or reduced Pro clinics we can do without them. Vendor row really thin - yeah its the economy... A $10 "sponsored" dinner *was* a rude shock for anyone that was not prepared to need cash, but even that isn't a deal breaker. None of these points, individually is insurmountable, but the combination makes the overall match experience...less.

During the opening speech, I remember the next best thing to bragging about how Rockcastle is the premiere shooting sports destination and the ProAm is the best 3 gun match in the country (W.stte). I am not sure it lived up to that standard. The stages were good, and I even did well on the now infamous AM2, but when it comes down to it, I took 2 days off work, drove 800 miles round trip, and spent 3 nights in a crap bucket motel, and spent some decent cash to shoot around a hundred rounds per gun over 7 stages. By comparison, the last club match prior to this I had to drive just over 100 miles round trip, cost me $45 to shoot, had 5 stages and I shot just under a hundred rounds per gun. Most of the "extras" that set this match above any others as the one to go to were absent.

Actually, most of the complaints seem to boil down to one root cause. Miss the Swag bag - the vendors did not donate enough. Miss the Side matches - the vendors didn't put them on. Miss the free dinner, the vendors didn't pitch in. Miss the opportunity to buy a whole internet's worth of crap between stages - there weren't enough vendors. Miss one of the Pros for one of your Pro-clinics - Blame Jessie's impatient wife...Ok, that was a joke, I am quite sure Jessie's wife has the patience of a saint, I mean after all.... But the problem going down that road is that vendors are in business to make money, and that's pretty tough now - blame Obama's stupid economy on that.

Since most of us in this sport are good friends, it's human nature to let the little things slide, and since they are admittedly most all little things, the impulse is to defend our friends, minimize the defects, and in some cases even address anyone who complains directly. Then you are left with all of the baggage of animosity. I don't think anyone is willing to put up with any of the political chicanery that produced the last few panics and gun buying surges just to get more crap in their swag bag are they?

I think we should just agree to disagree and remain friends.


Holy crap never in a million years would I have pegged myself as being the voice of moderation

Edited August 29, 2015 by barrysuperhawk

[GWelborn]

All of this discontent is how matches implode. Its amazing how, more than any other group, we absolutely eat our own without hesitation. That coupled with the fact that everything written on the Internet always sounds 100 times worse and more harsh than it was intended to be, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Jessie is very vocal, and when its in support of something like a certain brand of watch or his latest sponsors its an awesome thing to behold. The thing is, human beings don't typically have "off switches" so when an otherwise outspoken person is unsatisfied or feels things aren't right...guess what?

As far as Taran being gracious, of course he is, what else could he do? Its not like stomping his feet and yelling would have helped, and I suspect that trying to somehow insist on getting a specific prize would not have gone well either. That is why they are prize tables, not first prize, second prize, etc.

The problem is that there was not one big problem like an utter failure of the scoring process that a person can point to, it was the proverbial death of a thousand cuts. No swag bag, it's no big deal. No side matches or reduced Pro clinics we can do without them. Vendor row really thin - yeah its the economy... A $10 "sponsored" dinner *was* a rude shock for anyone that was not prepared to need cash, but even that isn't a deal breaker.

And since most of us in this sport are good friends, it's human nature to let the little things slide, and since they are admittedly most all little things, the impulse is to defend our friends, minimize the defects, and in some cases even address anyone who complains directly. Then you are left with all of the baggage of animosity.

I think we should just agree to disagree and remain friends.

Holy crap never in a million years would I have pegged myself as being the voice of moderation

Well Said Barry,,, I spelled you name correct this time.

[Superpipe9]

Gary I think the match was great and the stages were awesome. Great job and i hope you do it again next year. The visibility on the flashers was really good. Thanks again for all your hard work.

[Headworked]

Gary,

I also enjoyed the match, and found it quite challenging. I do have one request on the new slim flashers: when they are engaged from multiple positions, they don't stop swinging too quickly and it's difficult to call good clean hits... On the Pro 3 stage, some shooters had good hits, and slid over to engage them from other side, but they hadn't settled down much, so the call was mostly audible 'smack,... Thanks to you and all the RO's who setup and worked the long weekend!

[Vespid_Wasp]

1. Swag bags... really? I have buckets of that junk from years of matches, trade shows, etc. If you want it you're welcome to come get it. All of that stuff went to the prize table, I'd guess the swag bags went away because there weren't as many dollars to go around this year.

2. Vendors... Well most of us take time away from our day to day jobs to work a table and the company has paid for overtime, travel, food, etc. Now the feedback is great and getting to talk to shooters and provide that 1 on 1 time with the manufacturer is awesome. However, this is what we call "Show Season", with the majority of dealer and distributor trade shows going on during this time of the year. In fact, the NBS show was going on in Ft. Worth the same days we were shooting. And at the end of the day, its going to be fairly hard to even break even as a vendor at rockcastle. And hard to justify attending if you had to choose between it and a show with 500 dealers.

3. Side Matches... these were always run by match sponsors in the past, if less attend then there will be less side matches. And they were really cool, I remember shooting a .50 Beowulf full auto and meting Bill Alexander that first year. I bet I shot $20 worth of his ammo... still haven't bought that Beowulf though.

4. AM stages being stale... judging by the number of gofast shirts in the am match, some of you guys need to be on the other side to begin with... The AM side of the match is for new shooters with only a few club matches under their belt. It's not for a guy with 10k worth of race guns and a handful of sponsors. If it felt stale, maybe you should try the PRO side next year.

5. Match not running on time, I didn't see it. We shot within 10mins of our start time or earlier because we wanted to, for every stage on my squad. The ROs had much more down time than in years past. I had a great squad that hustled to set and paste.

6. Pro Stages... Most of us have been complaining about the level of difficulty for a few years. Go back and read previous threads and I know I said it. Gary gave it to us this year. With a couple of stages timing out a bunch of good shooters. I missed the last slug target with my first shot on one and ran out of time while reloading and I was shooting at the last pistol steel on the other as the timer went off. I hadn't shot a match or practiced in months before and shot a pistol I'd never fired before for days 2 and 3 and I engaged every target in the match before the par time. And honestly looking at the results and the percentage of people that timed out yes the par times on those 2 stages were a little short. However, we all asked for the bar to be raised and Gary did that.

7. Pro clinics, Idk I've never been to one and I'm certainly not good enough to teach one. I remember meeting some “big name” shooters that first year for the first time. It really made an impression on me how friendly and approachable they were. Even giving me tips and helping me with stage plans. It's a shame that there were people who didn't have that experience.

8. Sponsor Dinner... Feeding 500+ people is fairly expensive. Does anyone even remember who paid for it last year? Did you do more business with them because of it? Did you write them an email and say thanks? I know some of you will answer yes to those questions but most wont. I am a 3gun shooter, I love it, but in this industry I've just been through a layoff myself. We aren't seeing the crazy numbers we were in years past because of the political climate. We don't have all the extra money to throw at things like 3gun matches. At most you reach 750-1000 people at even the biggest match, most of them aren't your core customer, don't want to pay retail, etc. When for the same money you can get a million impressions on the Blaze or a 1/4 page in an NRA pub, it makes it hard to argue with your boss/marketing team/board whoever you answer too that you're spending the companies marketing dollars in the best way possible. If you want more sponsorship in this sport, show your appreciation. Be the guy posting on FB and tagging the company showing off your new prize, doing a range report, talking about how much you like it. Not the guy flipping it before he's even home for half of MSRP and not only undercutting the sponsor but all their dealers and distributors and in fact devaluing the thing they we're nice enough to give you.

9. Where can I find a match that has everything the pro-am had 5 years ago? It's still there, its still great people, great friends and a great time. That's what the pro-am is, seeing old friends, making new ones, surviving the Kentucky heat, and the Tennessee whiskey. Not to mention the fact that in 2010 there were about 8 “major” 3gun matches and now there are 4 or 5 times that, all competing for the same resources, same shooters, same market share, same sponsor dollars, etc.

How did you read my mind?

I don't think I even set foot on an AM stage so I really can't comment there. But I agree if you think the AM stages were stale because they weren't any tougher than three years ago, it might be time to step up to the pro match......

As a shooter and an RO I thought the shooting match itself went as well if not better than it ever has. We were consistently ahead of schedule even with some challenging stages where timing out was a real concern. New rifle steel, good variety on stages that tested multiple skills. There have been some great stages at this match over the last few years (the aerial clays a couple years ago was a blast), I thought this year was a perfect blend of good stages that ran smoothly.

A lot has changed in 5 years. 5 years ago, you couldn't buy a PMAG online. Ammo was hard to find. Rifles were bringing almost 2x what they sell for now. Vendors flocked in, brought lots of cool stuff, and made a killing. Things are much tighter now. Is it really surprising that fewer vendors were there? This market is a whole different world. There was still a lot of neat stuff available. Sponsorship was great. Tru-Spec has been giving the ROs gear to wear for several years now. I wear the 24/7 pants about 9 days out of 10 now, and have bought a bunch of their stuff because it is high quality, and I appreciate their support of 3-gun. I would shoot these matches with no prize table. I am still amazed at the generosity of the companies who support us. I try to return the favor by supporting those who support me. I buy things from JP, Taran Tactical, Samson, etc. And I encourage friends even those who don't shoot 3-gun to do the same.

I will be back next year.

I go to shooting matches because I really like shooting 3-gun, and because I really like interacting with a lot of great people. I haven't been to a better venue for that yet than Rockcastle. Between the 3-gun matches, sniper matches, USPSA, ,etc.... it is something special that even at 3 hours away still feels like my home range to me.

ETA: I ordered some 5.11 gear in thanks for them sponsoring the beer truck!!!!

Edited August 29, 2015 by Vespid_Wasp

[238shooter]

Constructive criticism is how we can get better.... Ripping and tearing others down gets you flagged as "one of those guys". Gary and all of the staff did well and I am sure these comments will be taking into consideration. However......pissing Linda off......bad form! You will regret it.

[Mike41]

My earlier comments match much of what Clutch USMC posted.

Again the entry fees could be raised to improve the prize table and pay for the lunch but I would happy with what we had this year.

For the complaints about the stages I bet Gary would love to see your suggested stages and would appreciate set up help the weeks before.

I just appreciate what we got and make the best of it. I really appreciated the weather and I never saw a single tick. But I did run 1 snake out from under a target stand in cowboy town.

I just hope the Rockcastle crew, Linda, and Gary and others continue to put on these matches for us.

Mike