PatJones Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I've spent the last week fighting with my new Range Officer. I think I've won the fight, and I just wanted to pass it on in case anyone else runs into the same issue. I'm a gunsmith but I don't work on 1911's all that much, I primarily build long range competition rifles. I'm sure the folks who work on these regularly already know what it took me several days to figure out, but I couldn't find any hints as to what might be wrong in my internet searches. The gun in question is my new Springfield Range Officer. It came from the factory with a good slide fit, but a creepy trigger. I figured it'd be no big deal to clean that trigger up, just do the same things I've done to tune 1911's in the past. I cut the tip of the sear to the correct angle and added a small breakaway clearance angle. The operating surfaces of the disconnector were polished. I measured the depth of the hammer hooks at .020 so I left the hammer alone. I set the center and left legs of the sear spring with 10-12 oz of tension each and reassembled the gun. The trigger broke cleanly at 3 1/4 lbs but the hammer followed the slide forward when dropped on an empty chamber. The symptoms were as follows: The hammer followed the slide only when the slide was dropped on an empty chamber and the trigger was not touched. If I held the trigger to the rear in the fired position, the hammer did not drop. If I held the trigger immobile by pushing it to the side with my finger, the hammer would not drop. When testing with dummy cartridges loading from a magazine, the hammer would not drop. I assumed trigger bounce was the problem. This seemed odd with an aluminum trigger, but I had swapped out the trigger for a shorter model. I put the factory trigger back in but still had the same symptoms. I tried a different sear and hammer but the same problems persisted. I added weight to the sear spring; I had a trigger pull of over 5 lbs and still the hammer followed. I fiddled with the angle of the sear; I had enough positive engagement that I could feel the hammer cock slightly at the trigger pull. Nothing seemed to work. Today I remembered something I heard in gunsmithing school about a gun that no one could figure out. I painted the hammer hooks and sear with a marker, reassembled the gun and cycled it a few times. Only one of the hammer hooks was bearing fully on the sear. Though I have not gone through the effort of measuring, I believe one of the sets of pin holes in the frame is drilled slightly crooked. I stoned the hammer hooks by hand with more pressure on the hook that was showing the good contact. I shortened this hammer hook until both hammer hooks showed good contact on the sear. The hammer no longer follows the slide. I hope my experiences save someone else a few hours of stress. I couldn't find anything on the internet or in my Kuhnhausen books that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Haven't worked on 1911's in a while but here are a few things to try. I suspect your sear angles might be off. With .020 hammer hooks, and correct sear angles it should not follow. Also make sure your sear face is engaging both hooks the same. Sharpie the sear face and dry fire a few times. Then check sear the sharpie should be removed evenly on both sides, if not stone down the hammer hook face on the side that there is no sharpie removed. I always used sti triggers with the plastic shoe they are the least susceptible to trigger bounce. You should be able to get to 2 lbs with .018 hammer hooks with no problem. I suggest going over to 1911 forums and checking out posts by "logman". There is a huge amount of info on trigger jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's fixed already. The only post at the 1911 forums with these symptoms was from another gunsmith who was abused by a troll and didn't return to share the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Pat> I wonder if you could have identified the incorrect sear to hammer hook engagement angle by using the external Sear/Hammer pins that are included in the below trigger job kit. I tried finding just the Sear/Hammer pins on the Brownells website but my searching kung fu is weak. Either way, I use these sear/hammer pins to double check the frame hole alignment vs sear to hammer hook engagement while its all outside the gun which makes it a lot easier to identify alignment issues. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/trigger-job-tools/trigger-job-kits/1911-auto-trigger-hammer-sear-kit-prod868.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I considered making a set of pins, I do have a lathe. But in the end I was able to correct it without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thanks for posting this, I've got a sear that should be "right" but is giving me a similar result. Will try the marker trick tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardust tommy Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 can you go to a 2lbs trigger with a 16lbs recoilspring? (.45) sometimes I have troubles when te heavy recoilsprings are in use... I had a Norinco the had follow, the problem was solved with a searpin of the correct size. the factory pin was out of spec. when I checked the hammer/sear on a fixture all was OK. in the gun the engagement was incorrect. gr Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I set my own personal trigger to 3.5 pounds. I shoot revolver and I don't care for the ultra light triggers. You can't buy A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feederic Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 can you go to a 2lbs trigger with a 16lbs recoilspring? (.45) sometimes I have troubles when te heavy recoilsprings are in use... I had a Norinco the had follow, the problem was solved with a searpin of the correct size. the factory pin was out of spec. when I checked the hammer/sear on a fixture all was OK. in the gun the engagement was incorrect. gr Tom Yes, it can be done. Thanks for posting this, I've got a sear that should be "right" but is giving me a similar result. Will try the marker trick tonight. Blue and red sharpie are my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Since you left the hammer hooks alone, is it possible that the hammer hooks were not square to the pin hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Since you left the hammer hooks alone, is it possible that the hammer hooks were not square to the pin hole?Possible, but not likely to be the same on two different hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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