Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Limited 6 interest thread


Recommended Posts

jhg,

I don't understand your perspective. IDPA consolidated the two existing revolver divisions into one. The same stuff that was legal before is still legal. There are literally no new options. The BUG stuff in the rule book simply solidifies guidelines for equipment for use at Back Up Gun Only matches, which is simply a rule book formality. IDPA realistically has "two" divisions. Both are very restrictive on what kind of revolver you can shoot and one is only available to use at a very limited amount of novelty matches. In ICORE, you can shoot pretty much anything, and the rulebook allows for match directors to create their own subcategories. It hasn't really been happening. I just don't see a lot of people coming out to shoot Limited 6. Most of the people that had those guns were USPSA shooters, or IDPA shooters for ESR. I guess it doesn't technically "hurt" anything, it'll just further dilute the pool of people already attending matches.

I thought, and still do, that I covered that when I said:

IDPA now has REV division with rules for moon clipped and speedloader fed revolvers. They also have a BUG division with separate rules for revolver.

They have rules covering the use of these guns at their matches and they are willing to change those rules. I see that as an attempt at encouraging participation. Yes they turned two divisions into one BUT they also implemented rules so that you could, in theory, compete with speedloaders or moonclips in that division. I suspect we will see a lot of 625's getting shot in that division but you don't have to do it and shooting 105pf with speedloaders will be appealing to those who can't, or won't, shoot the higher power factor required for the moon clipped guns.

BUG is not a novelty match division anymore. It can be shot at normal matches.

I wouldn't travel to a big match to shoot a subcategory or try to be "high 6 shooter". Not that I am likely to be "high anything" but the point is that sub categories that may or may not exist don't exactly get me interested in gearing up for a match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I still don't see it. They took two legal divisions and made one still-legal division and retained all of the rules from the two divisions and lumped it into one. There is no equipment that was not allowed before that is now permissible. Similarly, 625s are perfectly legal in ICORE Limited.

So if you had the time/money/whatever to go to a big ICORE match like the IRC and you knew there were going to be 10 LImited shooters competing for the Limited 6 Shot award, that wouldn't interest you, but if they called it the Limited 6 Division instead of the Limited 6 Category, that would be worth it? I would love to see more 6 shot revolver presence, but there needs to be demand for it to begin with.

Either way, if it's going to happen, they should let ICORE shooters know. There will need to be time for people to classify in the new division in time for the IRC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it is going to be a recognized Catagory rather than a Division. At this pint in time there is not enough data to show that a Division is called for. At least this is what I think is happening. rdd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I think you should go ahead with limited 6. I also think you should create open 6(next thing that will be requested). I would even go for 5 shot snubby class/ bug div.(just not 5 shot snubby open....that's ridiculous).

I don,t believe you will draw more participation. If you want that, you should send a rep to idpa nationals & uspsa revolver nationals and see if you can drum up some cross sport interest. Maybe give out a couple free entries to irc at nationals. Change the matches to Trophy matches and skip the "prize table" of course you would need to do away with the $200.00 entry fee and make it more inline with a trophy match. This would allow more people to try shooting a major Icore match in whatever division applies. Keep in mind most of the shooters for Uspsa revo nats were there to shoot single stack..not revolver.

Revolvers either you like shooting them or you don't. Appeal to the guys who like them.

Jason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe you will draw more participation. If you want that, you should send a rep to idpa nationals & uspsa revolver nationals and see if you can drum up some cross sport interest. Maybe give out a couple free entries to irc at nationals. Change the matches to Trophy matches and skip the "prize table" of course you would need to do away with the $200.00 entry fee and make it more inline with a trophy match. This would allow more people to try shooting a major Icore match in whatever division applies. Keep in mind most of the shooters for Uspsa revo nats were there to shoot single stack..not revolver.

Revolvers either you like shooting them or you don't. Appeal to the guys who like them.

Jason

I agree with what Jason says about participation. Another division won't do anything. At all.

Tossing some IRC entries onto revolver nationals prize table? Now that's an idea. At a minimum it brings up the conversation.

I don't know about a trophy match. I think you'll lose some top guys.

It doesn't really matter how much the match fee is, it's still the cheapest part of a major match. The IRC entry this year is the cheapest I've ever paid, for major match of its caliber. The ammo I burn the week prior costs more than the entry fee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

both ideas have been submitted to the board. one as a special recognized category in both limited and open and one as a stand alone division. we will have a vote in the july meeting. will either really bring more people to shoot revolver? nope. i agree completely with you... either you shoot revolver or you don't.... but what it could do is spark some interest in the crowd that doesn't want to buy the 8 shot gun, or as a special category those that want bragging rights because they did it with fewer rounds. i think it would be a good idea to send an icore shooting team to both of the other events to spark interest. im not sure if the other organisations would care or not. free entries is always a good plan as well. i don't agree with the trophy match for the international championship. most regional matches are little more than that... don't want a big prize table than by all means attend a lesser match. if you really want to help icore grown contact your regional rep and let them know your thoughts. posting on enos may not get the coverage you would like and more than likely won't provide you with the same amount of feedback as an email will.

thanks

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

As an ICORE shooter who competes with a 6 shot limited revo, I don't necessarily see the need for it to have its own division, but I voted yes for the simple fact that newer shooters, who already have a 6 shot 686, 66, etc would not have to buy a new gun to do so. They would merely need to send it to have the cylinder get cut and buy clips, a lot cheaper than buying a new gun.

The idea of the new division isn't for current ICORE shooters, IMO, it is for prospective new shooters. They would feel in order to compete on the same level they would have to buy an 8 shot revo. This way they wouldn't have to, they could shoot classic, but most people don't (exception at our club maybe, we have as many classic guys as limited guys a lot of times).

I still would hold that to grow ICORE, we need to find the guys who want to shoot it and bring ICORE to them. We need our guys to go compete in IDPA/USPSA etc and bring those guys over to shoot ICORE with us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I'd shoot single action six with reloads on the clock if it would drum up interest in my local area to shoot ICORE. Allowing it to be recognized is a great step for letting the six shot moonclip guns have a place to play/hide. Snubby should also be a celebrated category as anyone dedicated enough to shoot one well deserves a nod.

Idpa still has not addressed the elephant in the room with the 8 shot revolvers just loading eight and dumping two. They have gotten a lot of guns back in play with the reduction of ESR PF. I feel like ICORE is doing just fine with its PF and needs no change there.

I agree with the suggestion to lay out some entries on the prize tables for other disciplines revolver division shooters. Who knows that may be all it takes to get someone to commit to shooting a match they previously had not considered. I know when I first got into revolver shooting, I would have shot golfballs on the moon with my revo if somebody had suggested it. I could not get enough trigger time. Then rules and life slowed me down. All the better for ICORE since it is so very accepting of the various weights and barrel lengths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Voted yes, but really could care less.

Removing the factory ammo from the rule book was way more damaging than any shooters that will be added by putting in limited 6.

And if adding limited 6, why not open 6?

Do people really think this matters at all? really?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Here are some thoughts from a guy who picked up his first moon clipped revolver two years ago and has only been shooting at pistol matches for slightly longer than three. I started in IDPA because they have a division for just about anyone who's never been to a match before and could come up with a gun, three loading devices, and a safe holster. After my first year I realized that semi-autos are fun but revolvers are more fun. Most of my revolvers at that point were single actions and my only DA was a 6 inch GP100 which was a no-go in IDPA, so I acquired a 625 and started gearing up for ESR. Shortly after I had the gun decently tuned up and all the gear to go with it IDPA decided revolvers might get dropped all together. I wasn’t very happy about that, but it led me to ICORE and USPSA. It took me a lot of time and money to get the gun sorted exactly how I like it and in the process I have plenty of gear directly related to that particular 6 shot 45. The prospect of not shooting in the sport it was acquired and set-up for was disappointing to say the least. I’ve since realized there are plenty of places to shoot a 625 style gun if IDPA drops REV in the future, not a big deal. The take home points for me are the following: 1) I could have shot my 6” GP100 right off the bat in ICORE classic had I known it existed (advertising might help a bit) 2) It sucks to spend a bunch of money on a gun that becomes obsolete in the sport you specifically purchased it for 3) The easier it is to show up and shoot what you already own, the more people you are likely to have at a match. Especially if they don't have to load their own ammo just to participate.

I think ICORE is doing a great job by having divisions for the most common guns and gear, I wish someone would have pointed me in that direction when I started. If a L6 division were to be recognized I would suggest bumping the PF a little so guys who are buying factory ammo don't end up running a 170 PF gun against the lower PF hand loaders. You can run some really soft shooting loads at 155 PF, my IDPA loads are 255gr at around 625-650 fps and have minimal felt recoil. With that criteria L6 might attract more new shooters than it would steal from other divisions. The guys who already have a slicked up 8 shooter aren't likely going to shoot L6 unless their 8 shot is having problems. It also might provide a home for USPSA guys who don't want to buy an 8 shot and already have a well sorted 45. In our area the revolver guys either shoot one gun at every type of match (myself), or they have two or three specific to different games. I have thousands of 160 PF rounds already loaded and don't have an 8 shot gun, so L6 is essentially what I'm already shooting and I will continue to do so until I can afford an 8 shot.

Edited by Alaskan454
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think ICORE is doing a great job by having divisions for the most common guns and gear, I wish someone would have pointed me in that direction when I started. If a L6 division were to be recognized I would suggest bumping the PF a little so guys who are buying factory ammo don't end up running a 170 PF gun against the lower PF hand loaders. You can run some really soft shooting loads at 155 PF, my IDPA loads are 255gr at around 625-650 fps and have minimal felt recoil.

I agree that ICORE has the most accomodating gear divisions for any revolver shooter out there. I wouldn't agree with having PF for a single divison be different though. You would have to also run a minor in L6 though for guys shooting 6-shot 38/357 guns that are moonclipped, such as myself. I don't want to have to load 155PF in my 686, I'd be better off with moving to an 8-shot or picking up a 625.

Most any shooter (competitive format) will eventually start loading their own. The factory 45acp for L6 would be too hot, and almost no factory 38 ammo meets PF (which was why there used to be a factory ammo exemption). I don't think that would be a long-standing issue with L6, I believe it would work itself out to where the shooter realizes the benefit to loading their own ammo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think ICORE is doing a great job by having divisions for the most common guns and gear, I wish someone would have pointed me in that direction when I started. If a L6 division were to be recognized I would suggest bumping the PF a little so guys who are buying factory ammo don't end up running a 170 PF gun against the lower PF hand loaders. You can run some really soft shooting loads at 155 PF, my IDPA loads are 255gr at around 625-650 fps and have minimal felt recoil.

I agree that ICORE has the most accomodating gear divisions for any revolver shooter out there. I wouldn't agree with having PF for a single divison be different though. You would have to also run a minor in L6 though for guys shooting 6-shot 38/357 guns that are moonclipped, such as myself. I don't want to have to load 155PF in my 686, I'd be better off with moving to an 8-shot or picking up a 625.

Most any shooter (competitive format) will eventually start loading their own. The factory 45acp for L6 would be too hot, and almost no factory 38 ammo meets PF (which was why there used to be a factory ammo exemption). I don't think that would be a long-standing issue with L6, I believe it would work itself out to where the shooter realizes the benefit to loading their own ammo.

I forgot about the 38/357s with regards to power factor, and I suppose people who are competing regularly will eventually be reloading or buying very specific ammo so there really is no need to change PF for a L6 division. I like 180 and 200 gr RNFP bullets at the current PF.

Edited by Alaskan454
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't see the 625s coming out to play very often with a 120 power factor. I shoot mine at club matches with my 176 PF USPSA major loads, but I'm not interested in having another flavor of 45 to keep separated from my USPSA loads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I was originally against this. However after lengthy discussions with other limited shooters I change my mind. Lets get those 625 dusted off and chop an already over inflated Limited division down a notch. Having 4 divisions will not be the end of anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was originally against this. However after lengthy discussions with other limited shooters I change my mind. Lets get those 625 dusted off and chop an already over inflated Limited division down a notch. Having 4 divisions will not be the end of anything.

I've got a 686 cut for moons and ready to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With USPSA and IDPA turning their noses up at the 6 shot guns We feel that we must explore this option.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I don't understand this statement. In IDPA, you're ONLY allowed to shoot a 6-shot gun in REV class. How did IDPA "turn up their noses"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I am no longer the rules director and no longer associated with their board of directors but at the time this came out the information available showed idpa was doing away with ESR. There was some information that they were going to abandon revolver all together. Obviously some changes were made in idpa but it is apparent if you chose to shoot idpa there is still a place for the 625.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Edited by ChrisC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...