mellow13 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I finally got my super 1050 converted for use with .40S&W. Right now I'm just running mixed headstamp brass through to decap with a Lee universal decapper to prep for wet tumbling. I'm using on of those G.S Custom shell plates seen on ebay. The press is running on a Forcht drive. Every 15th or so piece of brass will hang up leaving station 1. The plunger get the brass onto station 1 but seems to hang up on the corner on the way to station 2. Circles the corner in the pic below. There's a loud pop and the brass goes flying away. The ejected case would have a deep gouge on the rim making it unsuitable for reloading. There doesn't seem to be any other defect that I could find on the brass. Every single piece of brass that has flown off has a Winchester stamp. That being said, some Winchester brass does make it through smoothly. I've taken apart the feeder assembly, cleaned and lubed it. Made sure there was no debris along the feed channels or in the shell plate. I made sure to tighten down the shell plate as that seems to be the number one recommendation for flying brass (tightened it down all the way, then backed off only 1/8th turn). The shell plate otherwise indexes smoothly. I've tried marking the slots on the shell plate to see if there was one bad slot, but there was no consistency in that respect. I've also check if there was any distortion to the shell plate. My next step was to get a hold of a dillon shell plate to see if it worked any better. I figured if I called them, that would be the first prerequisite. I can get more pics and maybe even video if it helps diagnose the problem. I appreciate any input. Thanks guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I use a Dillon shellplate on my 1050 for .40 and never had a problem. I tend to stick with OEM parts for reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Stick with OEM parts. The after market stuff tends to be just slightly out of speck. However I do not think that is your problem currently. It will likely be next time. It looks like you are running a large case feed plunger where .40 requires a medium case feed plunger. I know it seems pricy to buy the Dillion conversion but in the long run it will be worth it. Good luck and let us know if I am right about the case feed plunger. Retread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Somebody else was using, I believe it was a GS shell plate, on their 1050 and had tons of issues and ultimately sent the press back to Dillon whose first step was replace the shell plate with one of theirs and all the problems went away. They(dillon) stated on here that the measurements were so bad on the shell plate it was no surprise it didnt work. I want to say the center hole was oval shaped. It was a big thread, shouldnt be hard to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 It may be speed. Any faster than this and brass will fail to enter the shell plate correctly. Using a Dillon shell plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Somebody else was using, I believe it was a GS shell plate, on their 1050 and had tons of issues and ultimately sent the press back to Dillon whose first step was replace the shell plate with one of theirs and all the problems went away. It was a big thread, shouldnt be hard to find it. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195807 However, we didn't know that he was running said shell plate until post #44 and his post #12 was not completely accurate. Looks like post #45 was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Somebody else was using, I believe it was a GS shell plate, on their 1050 and had tons of issues and ultimately sent the press back to Dillon whose first step was replace the shell plate with one of theirs and all the problems went away. It was a big thread, shouldnt be hard to find it. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195807 However, we didn't know that he was running said shell plate until post #44 and his post #12 was not completely accurate. Looks like post #45 was correct. Thats the thread. Yea we didnt know, but I was just pointing out that Dillon found MAJOR issues with the GS branded shell plates and a genuine Dillon shell plate completely fixed the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Stick with OEM parts. The after market stuff tends to be just slightly out of speck. However I do not think that is your problem currently. It will likely be next time. It looks like you are running a large case feed plunger where .40 requires a medium case feed plunger. I know it seems pricy to buy the Dillion conversion but in the long run it will be worth it. Good luck and let us know if I am right about the case feed plunger. Retread Got it, thanks! I'm putting in an order for an OEM shell plate today. btw, the plunger is a medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 It may be speed. Any faster than this and brass will fail to enter the shell plate correctly. Using a Dillon shell plate. woah, Nelly!! Mine is certainly not going that fast. I'm working on getting up a video to show speed and one of the hang ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks for all the input. Here's a video of one of the ejections. The first 15 sec or so is real time. As you can see, the pace isn't too fast. Around the 12 sec mark is when the brass pops out. The last 15 sec show the ejection in slow mo. The brass didn't quite make it in. I need to examine the brass, shell plate, and feeder assembly a little more to find the culprit. The first picture shows the ejected brass. Notice the groove made on the rim from the corner circled in the pic on the original post. The second picture shows a more extreme example. Both brass are Winchester. I ordered some Dillon shell plates and will update when I have more info. Additional insight is welcome. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) The shell is obviously not making it fully into the shell plate. Why? Is there "stuff" in the shell plate? If you operate it slowly does the problem occur at the same location on the aftermarket shell plate? If it does is there anything in the groove at that station? Does the slide make a full stroke? You can watch the roller and the cam it runs against, that is mounted to the tool head. Watch the first few seconds of this video. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/auto%201050/th_VID_20130703_140146_826_zps2548893d.mp4 You can see how the case feed works. Note: that it is returned by a metal cam on the tool head, it is only placed into the shell plate with a spring. Anything that causes more resistance than the spring and you will have a case that is not fed into the shell plate. Edited September 14, 2014 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Hi jmorris. I checked inside all the slots multiple times pre and post ejections. I also checked the slot immediately after an ejection and couldn't find anything. I repeatedly brushed out all the slots with a nylon brush nonetheless. I marked the slot after each ejection but there was no consistency with that; the marked slot would feed fine and other slots that previously accepted brass, ejected them later. I also tried 'jogging' the autodrive to slowly feed the brass until it made a full circle around the shellplate. On several instances, I had no jams, on one cycle, I did. Again, on a slot that previously fed fine. I did notice that some brass were 'tight' in their slots. When manually clearing the shellplate of brass, I had a harder time removing some brass from their slots or the brass wouldn't rotate in their slots as easily. Maybe the tolerances of the shellplate are too tight to accommodate slight variations in the brass? Hopefully my dillon plate comes in this week so I can compare. To address your last question though, check this out... Is it suppose to do that? Seems to coincide with that area I circled in the original post. I couldn't really feel any raised area that would get in the way of the casefeed plunger. I suppose I could try stoning that area to see if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Not supposed to do that. Mine goes back and forth effortlessly, doesn't click at all. If you know someone locally that has a Dillon shellplate you can borrow, install the Dillon plate without changing anything else and see what happens. If the problem goes away, then you know it's the 3rd party shellplate and just get a Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I dont see much grease on your case feed plunger. Mine is fairly heavily greased including the roller. I get no popping or clicking on either of my machines like that. You COULD try a new spring on the case feed plunger too, but one of my machines has at least 50k cases through it and it still operates smooth as butter with no feed issues so I dont really think spring life on that spring is a huge issue. I would be interested to hear from people with over 100k when they changed that spring due to feeding issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonofVa Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Mine does not have a hitch in it either. Take the cover off and see if the hitch goes away. If not look for burrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks for the input freekshow. Unfortunately I don't know anyone else with a plate. Most of the people I know give me a funny reaction when I tell them I reload. I hear what you're saying about trying the plate out first, but I'm thinking bout getting rid of the click first. My worry is that if the click is the problem and it still hangs up when trying a dillon plate, it may deform the lips/plate. I keep reading about dillon shellplates being made of softer metal. I'm not sure how true this is but I do remember when I had a 650, buldges were forming on the bottom surface of the plate. This is what turned me to the gs custom plates in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I dont see much grease on your case feed plunger. Mine is fairly heavily greased including the roller. I get no popping or clicking on either of my machines like that. You COULD try a new spring on the case feed plunger too, but one of my machines has at least 50k cases through it and it still operates smooth as butter with no feed issues so I dont really think spring life on that spring is a huge issue. I would be interested to hear from people with over 100k when they changed that spring due to feeding issues. It lasts about 200K or so for me. I keep a few spares in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks for the input freekshow. Unfortunately I don't know anyone else with a plate. Most of the people I know give me a funny reaction when I tell them I reload. I hear what you're saying about trying the plate out first, but I'm thinking bout getting rid of the click first. My worry is that if the click is the problem and it still hangs up when trying a dillon plate, it may deform the lips/plate. I keep reading about dillon shellplates being made of softer metal. I'm not sure how true this is but I do remember when I had a 650, buldges were forming on the bottom surface of the plate. This is what turned me to the gs custom plates in the first place. The Dillon plates last a long time. I've got about 8 million press cycles on my 1050 using 5 different caliber shellplates and they are all in fine condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Yep, need to get rid of the click. I would take it apart maybe slide it back and forth without the spring. Let us know what you find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD1 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) which case feed plunger are you using? looks like alot of extra play. the plunger sticking is definitely a issue Edited September 15, 2014 by SD1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 RonofVA and jmorris, I tool off the cover plate and spring and was able to reproduce the click. There is a raised 'burr' on that corner as circled in original post. I'll work on getting rid of that with a Dremel and some stones. I'll update what happens after. SD1, it's a medium case plunger. I did some measurements of the rim height of some of the winchester brass that got ejected and also on some that passed through. They measure just shy of .054" where all the other head stamps measure .050". I winchester brass also seem to have barely any play when in one of the shellplate slots; when compared to the other head stamps, they have very little movement when wiggled side to side. The other headstamps also seem to rotate more freely in the slots. So I feel the culprit is the gs custom shellplate. This explains why it was just winchester brass ejecting. I felt the corner burr was made from the stuck cases. I'm still going to get rid of the click but I feel the gs custom shellplate just can't reliably accept winchester brass. I'm hoping the dillon shellplate will be more forgiving. I will post here with more updates. While I'm waiting, would anyone be willing to do a quick measurement of a winchester rim on a 40s&w to verify my measurements? Thanks! And thanks you all for your help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 .4165" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow13 Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 .4165" Sorry, I meant height of rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 .0490" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If the brass was processed in a roll sizer and the rim got mangled then it doesn't matter which shell plate is used. If you haven't, take a look at some of the ones that go flying out and see if they will slide in and out manually on the shellplate. If they dont, then check the rims on the cases. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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