Todd's Steel Challenge

[ToddKS]

I decided to try to get more serious about understanding my draw so I downloaded a free trial of some video analysis software called MotionPro. This software allowed me to not only slow the video down frame by frame, but also allowed my to place markers on each frame so I could plot the path of my muzzle. This generated some interesting findings. I broke the draw down into steps so I could see where I am losing time. This analysis did not include reaction time as the beep is not audible on the video. Based on the observed results I believe my reaction time to the beep is in the .2 second range.

1. Time from start position to hand on gun: Average of about .30 seconds (.25 and .36 on the two runs)s

2. Time from hand on gun to beginning of draw: Average of .18 (.17 and .19)

3. Time from begining of drawn to gun level and out: Average of about .60

4. Time from gun level and out to shot fired: Average of about .35

Using the markers to track the muzzle during my draw I was able to identify at least part of the problem on step 3. I do a decent job of not over clearing the holster, but as soon as I clear the holster the muzzle actually moves down (that is the opposite of the direction I need to be going). The muzzle then moves through that dip and upward on an arc that looks much like you would expect were I bowling. This is not efficient and I believe comes from trying to immitate the Ron Avery video. I need to fix this so that the gun is moving in a much straighter line towards the objective.

Once the muzzle is up there is some random motion and monkey business that goes on that is driven by the gun not being indexed on target when I brought it up. This is the driver behind the .35 seconds I am losing in step 4.

I am not sure how the times in step 1 and 2 compare to others. I am going to try to find some video that I can download and run through the program as well. I believe I will also post this for comment in the Steel Challenge section as well.

I am not sure if the MotionPro software will be my final solution, but this experiment definitely showed my how powerful a tool this type of analytical software is. I am definitely going to continue to work with video analysis going forward.

[ToddKS]

Shooting what may be my last match for the year (weather permitting) this Saturday. I got some practice in this weekend, but not as many rounds as I would have liked. Cutting wood for the winter has taken up a lot of time these past weekends.

I have a mount on the way from Springer Precision to mount the Delta Point I acquired a while back. I am not 100% sure that I want to go to open, but I would like to see what shooting a pistol with a dot is like so I am going to give it a try. The mount was only $45 and if I decide it is not for me I can always list it in the classifieds. It should arrive next week so maybe I will be able to test drive it later this month.

[ToddKS]

Shot my monthly Steel Challenge match this morning. Weather was cold, wind chill in the 30's with a stiff north breeze when we started. I was wearing more clothes than I normally would and for some reason they started the match 15 minutes early. I was running a little later than usual but was surprised to find them already shooting when I arrived. This caused me to have to rush about getting my gear out of the car and ready to go. Rushing seems to always have adverse effects on my performance. Today was no exception.

Pistol:

Smoke and Hope: This was the first stage of the match after rushing around getting my gear together. First run was a 3.24 but it crashed from there. Ended up with a 15.10 which is my worst time so far on this stage.

Pendulum: I know its not good to say it, but I hate this stage. I burned the better part of a box of ammo here. The first three runs were brutal (two in the 7's and and 8.85). My last two runs though were a 4.75 and 4.78. My best ever was a 4.67 which was the only run I had ever had before today under 5 seconds. Two runs under 5 seconds is a positive.

Showdown: Had a personal best run of 3.38 and a personal best total of 15.70 on this stage. Left hand box is not my friend. I had 3 runs under my personal best and was happy with this stage.

Round About: Back in the dumps I went. I was slow and I missed a lot. The result was a worst ever time of 18.45. I did not feel good about this one.

Accelerator: Last stage for the day and the weather had warmed up. This was one I have spent a fair amount of time practicing. I had a small personal best on this one of 19.34 which was .06 faster than my previous best from August.

We only shot 5 stages today so 5 to Go was not shot.

Rifle:

Smoke and Hope: I was still trying to shake of the rushing and the poor pistol performance on this stage. My first two runs were slow (2.70 and 2.67) then I was able to let go and ran off a 1.83. First sub 2 second run ever. Followed that with a 2.22 and then went for it on run 5 (we won't talk about that). Result was a 9.42 which was a personal best by .12 seconds.

Pendulum: Personal best here of 12.27 and first run ever under 3 seconds at 2.91. Crashed on run 3 but came back with 2 solid runs.

Showdown: My first run was great (1.72) the problem was I shot it 1,2, STOP PLATE!! Don't know what was crossing my mind there but that plan is not a winner. The great think is I came back from that and shot a personal best on the next for runs of 9.28 which was .74 seconds faster than my best ever and had another run under 2 seconds at 1.97. For what it is worth I was also informed that this was a range record for the stage (it's a small range but still kinda cool )

Round About: Personal best of 9.61 and personal best run of 2.27.

Accelerator: Tried a different plate order (1,2,5,4, S) for the first 2 runs. Did not work well. Made the decision to go back to 4,5,1,2,S and ended up with a personal best of 10.75 and a best ever run of 2.50

5 to Go was not shot.

I am pretty pumped about how I shot my rifle today. Feeling what those sub 2 second runs feel like was interesting. I would call it grip it and rip it. I was relaxed and there was no hesitation. When the dot hit the target I pulled the trigger and moved. I am a much better shot caller with my rifle than I am with my pistol which helps.

My red dot mount from Springer arrived today. The rear sight is already off the gun and the Delta Point is on. I spent some time dry firing and working my draw (new toy syndrome). The dot immediately exposed my issues with indexing the gun consistently. I have a tendency to roll my hand left (and sometimes up or down). With the dot when I do that I lose the dot. I suspect that if I can get better shooting with the dot then my irons will improve as well. We shall see but I am looking forward to working on it. I am going to find my way out tomorrow to try some live fire with the dot. We shall see how that goes.

As for today's pistol performance I will take the positives away and leave the negatives behind. I believe today's performance in part due to cold hands and extra clothing but also due to an excessive focus on speed in my dry fire practice. I believe I have become more focused on getting to the stop before the beep than on making sure my focus and sight picture are right. I am going to keep that in mind this month as I work with the new sight.

[ToddKS]

I was able to shoot about 200 rounds through my pistol with the new sight installed yesterday. Much of that ammo was spent getting a zero on the optic. Trying to do this while also shooting with my son was probably part of the problem. I did ultimately establish a zero at 15 yards. I am considering changing that to 20 or 25 as I was shooting over 6" plates at 30 yards with the 15 yard zero.

Putting the optic on my pistol has exposed all of the little things I am doing wrong as I can now see them translated into movement of the dot. I thought my trigger control was better than it actually is. I did notice though that by the end of my session my trigger control seemed better than when I started and I was very aware when the dot moved as I was pulling the trigger. Still having trouble getting the gun up and indexed off the draw. I believe this is just going to take a lot of reps with my focus on having the dot be there when the gun comes up rather than speed.

My takeaway from yesterday is that learning to shoot with the new slide mounted optic may be a little more challenging than I thought. It is clearly going to take some work over the winter. I really liked shooting with the optic though. I had previously been hesitant about moving to open but this is fun. Even with the issues I need to work through it was pretty clear to me yesterday that I shoot better with the dot.

I will probably order a slide racker as well as a matter of convenience. If I had been thinking I would have ordered that at the same time as the mount. Oh well.

[ToddKS]

Had my first real live fire practice with my Delta Point on Saturday. I confirmed my suspicion that the dot is not a silver bullet. Max and KC are safe for now.

I set up Round About because my performance on that stage seems to have gone down hill the last 2 months. I am still using my iPhone based timer which is not the best but I finally got it adjusted to where it works most of the time. I still believe my draw is my number one problem. My average draw to the #1 target on Round About was 1.7-1.8. The best draw I had with a hit was 1.59. That said I had a run of 2.98 with a 1.78 draw. It was my only run under 3, but I had around 10 runs between 3.05 and 3.15 which is significantly faster than I have ever run. Had some train wrecks as well but by the end of the session I was right around 3 seconds consistently.

I have to figure the draw out. Fortunately it is winter and I will have some spare time. I know from shooting my rifle that the key to fast times is being able to command that dot onto the first target and immediately send the first shot accurately. I am just not there with my pistol. I have put away the timer and am working micro drills starting with my hand on the pistol and bringing the pistol up with the dot on the target. I am not going any faster than I can successfully complete that task. If I get in a groove and things are going well I will speed up but as soon as the dot stops appearing where it needs to I slow back down. I am working this every night for 30-60 minutes. You would think I would be getting better but this is clearly going to take a lot of work.

I am completing the stage in under 1.4 after the draw in a repeatable manner. I had at least one instance of a 1.2. If I could get my draw down to something reasonable I think I would really be getting some where. I am going to stay focused on the draw for the next month and see what I can do.

[ZackJones]

Dots are fun but can also be rather frustrating -- especially you can't find the damn thing .

Sub-3 on roundabout is cooking. My best run this year is a 4.11. You may have seen it already but Doug Koening has a good video regarding Roundabout

This weekend I'm planning to shoot my production gun and rimfire irons. I'm going to leave the CORE at home for this match. I want to see what kind of time differences I have between the centerfire and rimfire pistols.

Edited November 18, 2014 by ZackJones

[ToddKS]

Yes, the first target where's my dot hand jive is over rated and is not helping my times any

I am interested to see what my cold times are next time out. I was very warm by the time I was running in the low 3's. One of the challenges is going to be getting to a place where I can produce that speed on a cold run.

Doug's video on Round About is a good one. I have tried the Max shooting order and I don't like it either. For some reason I do not like starting on the right hand side of the array. Not sure why, just not comfortable to me.

I am going to try the way Nimitz is running it next time 2,1,5,4,S and see how that goes.

I will be interested to hear how your match goes shooting the irons. I could be wrong but I don't think that I am going back. Despite the problems I am having with the draw I have quickly become attached to that dot. I now also want a Steel Master. I blame you for putting that idea in my head. Thanks buddy

One thing I forgot to note from last weekend. I have been working on trigger control. Goal was not to slam the over travel stop into the frame and not go any further out on the reset then necessary. I am looking for a quicker but less violent trigger pull if that makes sense. Anyway, on 2 runs I trapped the trigger. I have never done the before on a pistol and it took me a second to realize what I had done. Will have to see if that trend continues, but my accuracy and trigger control did seem much better.

[ZackJones]

I will be interested to hear how your match goes shooting the irons. I could be wrong but I don't think that I am going back. Despite the problems I am having with the draw I have quickly become attached to that dot. I now also want a Steel Master. I blame you for putting that idea in my head. Thanks buddy

It's Nimitz's fault. He has one and keeps posting about it . I'm in the process of setting up a Ruger 22/45 LITE for steel/NSSF. I will be putting a red dot on it. I've bought some goodies from TandemKross for it. Working on the 22/45 is a royal PITA though. If you don't get that crap lined up just right it's not going to go back together.

Regarding target engagement order I plan to make note of how I shoot the stages this weekend. We're shooting 5 To GO, Showdown, Smoke & Hope, Pendulum and Speed Option. I think it would be interesting to have a discussion on how you, Nimitz and I shoot the different stages. Perhaps it's time to revisit those threads over in the steel challenge section.

[ToddKS]

I would be up for revisiting those threads as well. I would like to get some information in there on rimfire rifle as well. I was really surprised they only opened 36 slots at Nationals for that division. I believe there is a huge growth opportunity there that they are missing. They should be out there trying to seriously promote that division. So many 22LR AR's and Ruger 10-22's out there and it is a lot of fun to boot.

[ToddKS]

Got some great suggestions and drills from my post in the Open Gun forum regarding the issues I have been having finding the dot on my draw. I have definitely made some progress on that this weekend and am far less frustrated than I was a few days ago. I knew I was doing something wrong but could not identify the root cause. Turns out I was doing several things wrong and I now have a strategy to work on each. Consistent head position is still a problem. I am not sure how much progress I have made on this. Maintaining my head in the correct position is uncomfortable as my habit has been to move it. This results in tension in my neck when I do it right. Will continue to work through the issue.

I am going to try to make some time this week to input some information into the stage threads per Zack's suggestion to see what conversation we may be able to inspire there.

[ToddKS]

The holidays have taken a toll on my overall schedule but a break is not necessarily a bad thing. I have done some limited dry fire, mostly continuing to work finding the dot on my dry. I am playing around with the idea of modifying the front strap of my pistol to possibly better position it in my hand. Nothing permanent, just a proof of concept item, quite possibly sculpted using bondo.

May shoot a match this weekend but it will depend on the weather. Possibility of rain and I am not motivated enough to shoot in the rain in December. If the weather is decent I am in, otherwise I am done for 2014.

[ToddKS]

I decided to go and shoot the match last Saturday, even though the weather was not ideal (50 degrees and off and on drizzle). I am glad that I did as it gave me a chance to shoot my pistol with the dot on it.

One thing I learned Saturday is that 3 in a squad is a bad deal for me. I am shooting both my pistol and my rimfire rifle. 2 other shooters is barely enough time for me to reload all those magazines. The fact that I was constantly either shooting or reloading mags made it difficult for me to keep my hands warm in the less than ideal weather. It warmed up a little as the day went on but what really helped was when things backed up a little and I had a few extra minutes between stages to warm my hands.

Some general observations on my first match with the dot:

• I can miss just a good with the dot as I could with my irons. The difference is that I am better at calling those misses with the dot.
• I can shoot much faster with the dot.
• I need to learn to miss less with the dot while not slowing down. I had some single runs that are indicators of what I can do when I do it right.
• I have spent too much time drawing slow trying to learn to find the dot. My draw was sloooow for the first four stages until I realized what I was doing. Needed to remind myself to GO!!! when the buzzer went off.

Open Pistol

Accelerator: First stage of the day, first stage with new dot. Hands were cold. Had 3 mediocre runs, one run with a Mike, and one run in the middle of 3.49 which was a personal best. My 18.73 overall was also a personal best but only .61 seconds faster than my best with my irons.

Showdown: Second stage of the day. Very rushed loading mags between stages. Had a mike on run 2 which did not help. Had a best run of 3.41 on my last run (not a personal best). My overall time was 16.15 (also not a personal best).

Roundabout: Still rushed between stages but the big problem here was the #1 plate. The post had swollen in such a way that the target was almost dead. It barely moved or rang when hit and the irony was that the closer to the target you hit the less it rang. I was not feeling very confident with my shot calling having thrown 2 mikes in 2 stages and I went to war with that plate. I believe I shot it at least 9 times in 3 runs. This stage is one I am going to forget about. 19.02 overall, 3.96 best run.....and another Mike! Pure awesome.

Pendulum: Things backed up a little here so I was not as rushed. I missed a lot on this stage but I was determined not to slow down. I need to learn to be more accurate while going fast. The result was an overall time of 19.30 which is 4.32 seconds faster than my previous best with my irons. I also had a best ever single run of 3.82 (went 5 for 5). That run is an indicator to me of what I can really do with the dot and some more practice. I was very encouraged by that run.

Smoke and Hope: I was carrying some enthusiasm from my first ever sub 4 second run on Pendulum which I believed helped me here. This is also where I finally figured out that I had been drawing slow all day. I started focusing on reacting to the beep and just moving faster. My first run was a 3.10 which was my best ever until I put down a 2.98, 2.94, and 2.87 for a combined best of 11.89 and a best ever run of 2.87. 11.89 is 3.21 seconds faster than I have ever run Smoke and Hope.

5 to Go: Things clicked for me on this stage. I did not have too many misses here and my draw was decent. I had a best ever run of 3.64 and an overall time of 15.78 which is 5.90 seconds faster than my best ever.

My overall time for the day on the 6 stages was 100.87 which is 11 seconds faster than my previous best with the iron sights. Most of that improvement was on Smoke and Hope and 5 to Go. I am feeling good about the dot. While my current configuration is "Production Optics Ready" since there is not Prod Optics right now I can see myself going full open in the future. I don't have the cash to rebarrel and comp my pistol right now but I can see a race holster in my future in Q1.

Rimfire Rifle: Despite the weather and other factors I shot my rifle well again this month. My overall time of 62.73 was a personal best for the 6 stages despite a bad start on Accelerator.

Accelerator: Overall time 12.39 is 1.64 slower than my personal best. Shot the first run in my pistol order instead of my rifle order which should have been my throw out run but a dud round ruined run 4 so I ate a 3.67 on the first run.

Showdown: Overall time of 8.55 is .73 seconds faster than my previous best. Did not have a best ever run but I owned the right hand box 2.10, 2.05, 2.11. The only thing missing was a sub 2 second run.

Roundabout: Had the same issue here with the #1 plate but still had a best ever total of 9.53 and a best ever single run of 2.08.

Pendulum: Shot this solid at 12.38 which was just .11 seconds off my best ever. Did have a best ever run of 2.86.

Smoke and Hope: Was pretty jacked up over my pistol performance on the stage and turned that into a best ever of 8.34 which was 1.08 seconds faster than my previous best. Did not beat my 1.83 from last month but did run a 1.90 on my last run. Smoke and Hope went well for me overall.

5 to Go: Overall time of 11.54 is .46 seconds better than my previous best and I tied my best ever run of 2.83.

My rifle shooting has gone really well this year. I am setting my 2015 goals based on times that would have been in the top 10 at the 2014 Nationals. I am also working on what sort of ammo budget I need to support that.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ToddKS

[ZackJones]

Blazing times man Congrats! After reading your post I did a comparison of my open versus production times. What's odd for me is I'm 50/50 regarding which stages I shoot faster with irons versus a dot. With the dot I'm faster on 5 to Go, Showdown, Outer Limits, and Pendulum. I'm faster with irons on Smoke and Hope, Accelerator, Speed Option, and Roundabout. I'll do another comparison after I've shot all 8 stages with my new Limited blaster. Are you shooting the Nationals by any chance?

[ToddKS]

I looked at going to Nationals but it was going to stretch the budget. What really killed it for me was when they only had 36 rifle slots. Could not see spending that kind of travel money and not getting to shoot my rifle. I am already budgeting for 2016 and hopefully they will offer more rifle slots.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ToddKS

[ZackJones]

I looked at going to Nationals but it was going to stretch the budget. What really killed it for me was when they only had 36 rifle slots. Could not see spending that kind of travel money and not getting to shoot my rifle. I am already budgeting for 2016 and hopefully they will offer more rifle slots.

Agreed the 36 rifle slot thing is DUMB! There's always the world shoot for 2015 but I have no idea where or when it's going to be held. If you have a 22 pistol you could consider the NSSF world shoot in October. It's being held at the Old Fort Gun Club in Ft. Smith Arkansas.

[ToddKS]

I have a 22 pistol but it is really not suitable for the purpose. I would like to build an open rimfire pistol but there are some things I want to have done to my XDm first. Will have to see how my budget situation works out over the first half of the year. NSSF is something that I have definitely looked into as well and could see myself doing that in 2016 if not next year.

[ToddKS]

^{Figured I would stop by here for my 300th post.}

^{Christmas and sick children are adversely affecting my training schedule. Hopefully starting next week I will get back on track.}

^{Ordered a DAA Race Master holster for my birthday. Figured I would make sure I got what I really wanted this year.}

[ZackJones]

Please post a review of the race master I have been thinking about one as well.

[ToddKS]

Please post a review of the race master I have been thinking about one as well.

I got my Race Master today. I put some feedback over in the XD section. Short version is if you are going to shoot Limited or Open you should get one. Get the magnetic version. You may decide you want to file the serrations off the locking lever and polish it up as I did.

Draw is much faster from the new holster.

[ZackJones]

Thanks for the info. As luck would have it I sold $200 worth of stuff today. Did you buy it from Stoeger's Pro Shop?

[ToddKS]

Thanks for the info. As luck would have it I sold $200 worth of stuff today. Did you buy it from Stoeger's Pro Shop?

I ordered mine from www.speedshooter. com purely because they were the only place I found that had the magnetic insert for the XDm. If you are going to order from them I would call first and confirm that they have it in stock as their website does not tell you if the item is in stock or not. They did ship the day after I placed my order so I was pleased with that.

Everywhere I looked seemed to have the same price so I would order from whomever has the model you are needing in stock.

[ToddKS]

The weather here in January does not lend itself to a lot of outdoor shooting so I have decided to use January and February to get in shape in general. Gained some weight over the holidays. I started back on my normal diet after Christmas and have lost the 9 pounds I gained but want to lose another 10-20lbs that I meant to lose last year.

I am doing some limited dry fire but for the most part I am focused on hitting the gym and getting in better shape. If the weather is nice this weekend like they say I may go out and shoot some practice but I need to get a deer first if I can. Last weekend of doe season.

At some point in the near future I am going to have to work on my 22LR situation for the season as well. If someone has a good solution to that at less than $.08 a round shoot me a PM, I would love to hear it.

[ZackJones]

Gunbot.net it may be a little more than .08 after shipping but you'll at least be able to find some ammo in stock. Our local gouger mountain (Gander Mountain) had 50 round boxes of Remington .22LR for 2.49 per box limit 5. I bought 5 and then sent my wife and one of her co-workers over there get some while they were on lunch break. I checked today on the way home from work and they were sold out.

[Pasley]

If you have the patience to sort through the BS you can find cases of Federal Auto Match on gun broker at .08/round, before shipping.

[ToddKS]

I check gunbot daily. .08 a round is there on case quantities typically once a week. I am looking to buy 5K at least so each .01 equals $50, $100 if I buy 10K so I was hoping to find .07 or even .06 but I have not seen that yet. I have 60-90 days before I hit critical mass and have to buy something so I will keep looking and hoping.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ToddKS