2MoreChains Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Fair enough but for "less unusual" movement scenarios, waiting to reload until you are entering a position isn't a great plan ... Check. If moving forward or laterally I want to initiate the reload and get it done within the first few steps. In the retreat/then move forward scenario I punch the mag release early on then shove in the mag once I've rounded the corner. There were a couple of stages like this at Utah State last weekend, and I did just that. I have shot stages where it was retreating all the way and sometimes you just have to do what you gotta do (a stage at 2014 Area 1 comes to mind). In those instances I keep the gun up high pointed over my shoulder while moving to the rear and shove the mag in on the go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bceglinski Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 always on the move shooting and reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 shooting while moving is way less important than most realize .... now reloading while moving? That's mandatory ... standing (slidelock) reload basically equates to 1 mike as far as your total stage time goes .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) shooting while moving is way less important than most realize .... now reloading while moving? That's mandatory ... standing (slidelock) reload basically equates to 1 mike as far as your total stage time goes .... i think it's way *more* important than most realize. especially due to the very close relationship it has to leaving a position sooner and starting shooting sooner. Every one of the top shooters (even in production) is shooting while moving on th way into most positions. Working on shooting while moving alot the last couple months has sparked a fairly significant improvement in my match results. Even in limited capacity divisions, shooting while moving is important, and the faster you get at reloading, the more important being able to shoot while moving becomes. Of course I would encourage all my competition to practice other stuff, like maybe just plate racks at 10 yards and that's all. Edited December 17, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 just symantics ... when i hear the term 'shooting on the move' my definition is literally moving in some direction while engaging targets. i do not consider what you describe as 'shooting on the move' or 'shooting while moving' even though technically since when doing what you describe you are not standing still you are moving in some fashion. to me, what you describle it what i call the ability to efficiently move through a stage in minimum time. a good example is the classifier Times Two. there are 2 shooting boxes that you must be in in order to engage targets. you are not allowed to engage any targets while moving bewteen the 2 positions. however, in order to shoot this classifier well you must be shooting while leaving the first position and be shooting as you enter the 2nd position. i do not define that as shooting while moving ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 just symantics ... when i hear the term 'shooting on the move' my definition is literally moving in some direction while engaging targets. i do not consider what you describe as 'shooting on the move' or 'shooting while moving' even though technically since when doing what you describe you are not standing still you are moving in some fashion. to me, what you describle it what i call the ability to efficiently move through a stage in minimum time. a good example is the classifier Times Two. there are 2 shooting boxes that you must be in in order to engage targets. you are not allowed to engage any targets while moving bewteen the 2 positions. however, in order to shoot this classifier well you must be shooting while leaving the first position and be shooting as you enter the 2nd position. i do not define that as shooting while moving ... But practicing shooting while moving (imho) helps make you better at shooting while leaving and entering positions. And most stages aren't classifiers, so you don't have to wait until you are in the box to shoot, you can still be a few steps away and be shooting as you are decelerating and setting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) This is a game of time, soooooo,......whenever there is a question of what to do FIRST and moving is a possible answer, then choose moving. Whatever gets you to the last shooting position before your competition,...do that. I used to shoot a stage in STEPS, 1. Draw 2. Move here 3. Engage this 4. Reload 5. Move there....... Slow. Slow. Slow You can do quite good following that plan, but at some point during B to A class, you are gonna get left in the dust. You need to learn to do what needs done while making MOVEMENT towards the last shooting position as high a priority as possible. So instead of "reload and move" think "move and reload". Actually, you should be thinking more like...."MOVE MOVE MOVE RELOAD" Lol Motosapiens is nailing some great points in his posts above. Edited December 19, 2014 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i think we are all saying the same thing .... we should write a book together .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joakim Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Thanks everyone, many good comments! Edited December 25, 2014 by joakim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviewonder Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 The moment I take the first step out of the box going to the next box/shooting position is when the mag release is pushed almost automatically, and a fresh mag is inserted with the gun up in my working space (in front of my face) and rotated out toward the next target ready to shoot at the earliest time when arriving at the next shooting box/position. I do the same thing in the Gun Fighting courses I have taken while facing the shoot targets down, I reload and then do a 360 degree scan to check for any more BG's. Yes there are some disciplines that cross over here as we get older and wiser. I have learned to appreciate "Hot Ranges" as much as Cold Ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I noticed that I tend to move slow the first few steps while reloading, then I never really pick up the pace when I should be hauling a$$. Now during dry fire I'm practicing shooting an array then taking off as fast as I can possibly move while at the same time performing a reload. My problem is that there's only so much room in my garage to run. Also, I have a pad in my range cart that I try to drop the mag in, so it really isn't very realistic. In fact I've noticed during a match that I often try to drop the mag in the spot I was standing in. Maybe this is just a habit from my dry fire. I may need to do some outdoor dry fire. I know that sometimes I'm still reloading when I get to the next position, but for me it's all about my habits. If I'm in the habit of moving slowly during a reload I'll just be slow. If I'm in the habit of moving my feet as fast as I possibly can I'll be faster. I'll just have to teach myself to reload quickly while I run. I've just got to keep trying... Also, I like the earlier comment about standing up straight as you come into position. I watch myself in videos and I can see that when I start my move I first drop about 4-6 inches before anything else happens. This has got to be a waste of time. I think I need to practice dropping to my moving height when I draw, then stay at that height when I get into the next spot. This is going to be a difficult habit to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Move like your feet are on fire and reload as you are moving....if you shoot L10 remember if your feet are moving you should be reloading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullMetalJacket Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Move like your feet are on fire and reload as you are moving....if you shoot L10 remember if your feet are moving you should be reloading I try to keep my feet moving for the whole stage. Stopping and going it just added time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy69 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You must try it for yourself and see what works best for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shws Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 On the exit drop the mag while starting your initial "push". run your heart out and hopefully you complete the reload while entering the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi, I need to speed up my movement between shooting positions. Discussed reloads during movement on the last match and would like to have some more opinions. Lets assume shooting position one and two with a 10meter/yard distance. The comment I got was that you run faster if you reload either when leaving p1 or entering p2 compared to reloading when running in between. In general, would you prefer to reload when exiting or entering a position? Then we have the more complicated cases with movement away from the berm. stg2.JPG Safety angles 90 degrees on right side, less on the left side. Start at the x, reload before the second group of four targets (start with 16 rounds). At P1 (x) i shot the lower two, started backing up and shot the upper two targets, dropped mag, and reloaded as I entered P2. Would it be better to reload before turning and running to P2? I generally reload as soon as all the targets in one array have been engaged. So, I guess I reload on the exit... Then I just run like mad and concentrate on entering the next position smoothly with the sights on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 shooting while moving is way less important than most realize .... Disagree. You don't even have to move that fast or shoot that fast if you are doing both at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 shooting while moving is way less important than most realize .... Disagree. You don't even have to move that fast or shoot that fast if you are doing both at the same time. just repeating what arguabley 2 of the top USPSA instructors in the U.S. told me when I took training from them ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 shooting while moving is way less important than most realize .... Disagree. You don't even have to move that fast or shoot that fast if you are doing both at the same time. just repeating what arguabley 2 of the top USPSA instructors in the U.S. told me when I took training from them ... I find that hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Ok. However I can assure that is what they said, particularily since I've taken multiple classes from them and they said the same thing in each class ... Do not confuse efficiently moving through a CoF with 'shooting on the move' because that is not what we're talking here. Everyone advocates shooting as soon as you enter a position and exiting as you shoot if possible. What we're talking about here is literally shooting targets while moving vice getting into a position and shooting them and then exiting the position. They also said that unless you can guarantee two alpha hits on paper or first knock down on steel you are usually always better off getting into position and shooting them then trying to shoot them while moving since the lost points and or time in reengaging targets Results in a lower HF Edited March 31, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think we need to get some of these guys (I assume ben is one) to weigh in with a little more info and clarification. For sure there are fewer opportunities to shoot on the move in production, and the high cost of charlies makes it a less viable option. Nonetheless, I find something that is worth shooting while moving just about every match, even in a limited capacity division. I also think that rather than taking someone's word for something, it's worth setting up some scenarios and running them, both ways and checking the time in dryfire, or calculating the score in live-fire. In the classes I've taken with Ben, gathering your own real data has always been something he has encouraged. It just removes guesswork. As I've mentioned previously, I think there is no real difference between shooting while moving, and shooting as early as possible when entering a position. As soon as you can engage the targets with a sufficient sight picture to get mostly A's, it's probably best to do that, even if you are still 3 steps away moving into a position. As I've also mentioned previously, practicing shooting on the move has great benefits that will help your awareness of the sights and particularly being able to shoot early on entry, and exit while shooting. Even if you NEVER plan to really shoot on the move in a match, I think it's worth practicing because it will make shooting during entries and exits easy and instinctive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Who is they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) since I don't have a tape recording and can't 'prove' what they said I don't plan on providing names. Also the context that these discussions happened in may not be exactly the same as we'r talking here. They also never talked in absolutes but that in general, there where far less opportunities in a match where shooting on the move was the better tactic then the average shooter realized. There are many factors which go into the decision on which will yield the better results, many of which Moto outlined. My comment was meant to address the fact that for most shooters (think your typical C/B class shooter) there are many other skills which they should be focusing on before getting wrapped around something I would consider an advanced skill. I've always been a big beliver in the crawl, walk, run theory when it comes to learning skills ... For you A, M & GM types of course shooting on the move is an important skill set to master. But for someone who can't shoot at even the 75% level in a straight forward stand and shoot classifier I believe their training time would be better spent mastering more of the fundamental action shooting skills .... the ability to shoot accuactly at speed .... Edited April 1, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Motosapiens and Nimitz generally sound on point to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 my litmus test for this skill is very simple: if you can't stand and shoot accuratly at speed, what makes you think it will turn out better while moving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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