dauntedfuture Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 You can get a 6.5x.284 into a short action rifle. Its also a shorter-fatter case. Factory brass is available. It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 You can get a 6.5x.284 into a short action rifle. Its also a shorter-fatter case. Factory brass is available. It works. Do you have a short action chambered for 6.5 284? I have heard of it being done with single shots, and sometimes the bolt has to be removed to load and unload the rifle. You certainly would not be able to stuff a 6.5 284 into a short action magazine. Cool cartridge though, even harder on barrels than a .243, but still cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Who needs 6.5-284? We have the 26 nosler now! Edited October 15, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Before snipershide forum sold out to scout, a couple days ago, some of the guys were getting together on a group deal with a particular company to have a bunch of 260 remington rifles reamed to a .260 Ackley Improved. Man, I'm gonna miss that site I remember when the 6.5-284 ruled the roost, and the 6.5x47 lapua. Then it was the 260 remington. That was like everyone's go to 6.5mm gun. And now its the 6.5creedmore. But if you already have a 260 remington, why not AI it... Back to the original topic. I saw something on youtube a couple of palma shooters talking about Brian Litz and berger bullets. My understanding is that some of the the 308 shooters are going away from the 155gr Palma's to the Berger 215gr... It didn't sound right to me, so I started looking at load data and ran across this: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/215gr-berger-hybrid-308win-104197/ With 49.0gr of RL-17 behind it loaded at 3.10" OAL, you can push that 215gr bullet with a .696bc at 4500ft altitude at 2600fps. It stays supersonic to 1700 yards.... A .308win... 1700 yards... thats pretty insane. You can't do that with a 6.5.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateTSU Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) The 6.5x284 is a great cartridge but everyone knows about the barrel life(or lack there of) But barrels are expendable I cant say I have ever heard of this cartridge in a short action, I have a 260 short action and a 140 A-Max does not fit in the magazine so I cant imagine how a 6.5x284 would fit. I have heard about the 26 Nosler, haven't seen one and don't know anybody with one, I bet they will have a have a hard tome getting people to switch from the 7mm Mag or 300 Win mag to the 26. Almost seems like a solution without a problem. Edited October 17, 2014 by NateTSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 ^ One of 6.5 Creedmoors advantages, you can fit the 140's easy. What you lose in case capacity is negated by being able to run long bullets without having them shoved deep in the case. I think the Nosler is being marketed exclusively for hunting, not to say that it can't transition over to target use but I think it's unlikely. Seems a bit overbore to me, hunters might be just fine cause they shoot almost a whole box of ammo a year but I bet a serious target shooter would burn the barrel out right now. Unfortunately I don't think it'll really catch with hunters either, most I know don't believe anything less than 30 cal will kill groundhogs. Some do concede that on a good day, a 7mm could kill a small squirrel or a big mouse though, I guess that's progress in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Don't know if anyone picked up on my disdain for hunters or their love of big magnums for small/medium game. I have to work hard not to vent on here about all the gun expert co-workers I'm stuck with all day telling me that shooting at any targets without fur is too easy and a waste of time and money. Sorry, I guess I vented a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateTSU Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 , most I know don't believe anything less than 30 cal will kill groundhogs. Some do concede that on a good day, a 7mm could kill a small squirrel or a big mouse though, I guess that's progress in the right direction. Very accurate statement it always cracks me up when people talk about having to have a 300 Ultra Mag to kill a whitetail. I try not to laugh, they don't seem to grasp the concept of a bad shot or miss with a Magnum rifle is still a bad shot or a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yeah, but you gotta have that "knockdown power!!!!" for 130lb animals 50yds away. I like it when they tell me how they head shot a running yote at 1100yds with their 40bmg hunting rifle while standing on the roof of an idling tractor. At that point I invite them to the range and watch them struggle with watermelon at 50yds from the bench. Sorry, more venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateTSU Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Everybody knows that one guy, had a co-worker try to tell me he shot a running blackbuck from a jeep while they were chasing it! all I could say is wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 That's impressive. I wish it was just one guy though, it's actually like 16 of them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have/ had three different 6.5x.284 rifles. One is in a rem 700 short action, it has had the barrel set back. The other is in an RPA short action quad-light and the other, which I sold was in a short action "MO's" action. Depending on the throat in your rifle you can load 6.5x.284 so it will fit in a magazine like the AI. I am planning on turning my rem 700 SA gun into a repeater for "tactical" matches when I get home and loaded ammo will fit in a an AI magazine. With a long throated 6.5x.284 you might have to remove the bolt to get a loaded round out. The .284 was designed to provide "magnum" performance in a short action .308 bolt face rifle I believe. In terms of recent history of the 6.5; David Tubbs pioneered the 6.5-08 some years ago in 1995 or about then. Years later this was turned into a standard factory ctg, the .260, but its a 6.5-08 or .308 necked down, just like a 7-08 is. The 6.5CM came along a few years later as its a little more efficient, wears the barrels less, and "hornady and team" designed it. 6.5x47 is another alternative; its all just a compromise of recoil and barrel wear. Given a good barrel "all" 6.5 are capable of stellar performance for NRA HP. The 6.5x.284 came onto the scene a few years later after the introduction of some better 6.5mm match bullets and in order to more effectively push a 142 SMK to 3K fps, someone though the 6.5x.284 would word and it did. I imagine that the 6.5x.284 has been around for a long time, but not in highpower competition. Prior to the 6.5x.284 most were shooting a 7mm magnum or 300 WM, before that it was the 30-338. 30-338 is the same as 300 WM. Cartridges other then .30 were only feasible when the NRA went away from the .30 cal rule...I don't remember when that was. I could go on. My experience with the 6.5x.284 has been great so far. I did little to no load development with my first rifle and shot several 200's and even a 990/1000 on a 1000 pt agg at 1000yds to win second in a big regional. Loaded with H4350 or H4831 SC, 142 SMKs in a Lapua case its a real hammer. Barrel life is short, 1000-1500 rds but this is the same as a 7mag or 300WM among serious NRA LR shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateTSU Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Dauntedfuture you might also give Hybrid V100 its a great powder for 6.5x284 little slower burn rate and a little more case volume compared to H4350. I think the 6.5x284 really shines in F-Class along with the "straight" 284. even saw some 7wssm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 38 Superman I'd say also that the previously commented on 200 thousandths is extreme jump for your loads. Maybe a replacing the barrel is in order. You can take to to a bunch of people who can do it right. Got a buddy who purchased one of those chassis systems and he's happy with it. I like the Mcmillan stocks. Thats why Baskin and Robbins has all those flavors. I'd stay with the .308. Theres a metric butt ton of ammo available for it and as previously noted if you're doing your calculations correctly you can hang with the others just fine. Maybe throw a Hart barrel on her...McMillan stock...Badger Ord rings and 20MOA base.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Everybody knows that one guy, had a co-worker try to tell me he shot a running blackbuck from a jeep while they were chasing it! all I could say is wow. I think I work with that guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocUSMCRetired Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) I just wanted to chime in here. I am going to go through this and try to help out where I can. But from what I have read so far I would like to address a couple of things. I would first like to recommend reading Bryan Litz's books on long range shooting. But I would also like to address that part of it is number of rounds sent down range. When you are not paying for the rounds, you tend to practice more. Simple truth is, before we went to Iraq (I was a corpsman, but I know plenty of snipers) we put thousands of rounds down range over the course of months in preparation. Then again in country. So for one, its muscle memory, and firing so often you don't loose it as much as you do when your having to pay for the ammo, and time out of your own pocket. As far as the discussion goes, 6.5 with Berger 140s are incredible rounds. The new book is coming out with the data on them as well, if anyone is interested. Also the new curves are being released around December 1st. Edited November 18, 2014 by DocUSMCRetired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Lee's right about the advances in bullet design in recent years, particularly from Berger. Some of the 308 data is stunning! Of course, here I sit with umpteen billion sorted 155 Noslers and a 13" twist Palma rifle with lots of barrel life left! Well played, Satan! Mark Tony, I live in Montana where absolutely EVERYBODY has killed an elk at "a thousand yards!" by holding "just over his back". Edited November 18, 2014 by redial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Welcome to the forum DocUSMC, it's a great place. I saw your sig picture and wondered if Applied Ballistics was gonna be mentioned, I have yet to read a lot of Brian Litz's wisdom but what I have seen makes me think it's a must have for any long range shooter. And that's hogwash redial, everyone knows to shoot big game at long range you gotta hold 3' above the tail, to account for the breeze of course. Edited November 18, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Earlier in this thread, JKSniper asked a question that I have thought about a lot. When discussing the extremes of case prep and benchrest style obsession at the loading bench, he asked the following: "Are your results really that much better than quality factory match grade ammo that it justifies the investment in time and $ to achieve them?" I responded with an impassioned manifesto on the virtues of handloading vs buying premium ammo. However, I still feel I really can't answer whether the investment in time & money is justified without quantifying the results. Just how much improvement if any, does all that work yield? To answer that, I have decided to embark on a little laboratory experiment. The idea is to duplicate the factory ammo with the same or similar components. The only variable will be the way the ammo was assembled. The results will tell whether there is any difference, and if so, is it substantial or marginal. The process will involve three phases. 1. I will shoot the first strings with factory Nosler Custom Competition w/ 175gr HPBT match bullets. Two boxes will yield (4) groups of 10 shots. 2. These same cases will be loaded with the same Nosler bullet to essentially the same velocity as the factory load The primers are Federal Match and the powder will be Varget or possibly Re15 However there will be no special attention given to the reloading process. The brass will be reloaded with no case prep at all except cleaning and visual inspection. The loading will be done on a single stage O-ring press with standard RCBS full length dies and seated to the same OAL as the factory. Once the powder measure is set, the charges will be thrown and not individually measured. Again (4) 10 shot groups. 3. Finally, these same cases and components will be reloaded with all the precision I can muster. Cases cleaned & inspected under lighted magnifier Cases trimmed to length, case mouths chamfered Primer pockets cleaned to remove residue Cases sorted by weight Neck sized in Redding S type bushing dies Primer seated Each powder charge individually weighed Bullets seated with Forster benchrest seating die Rounds checked for concentricity. Any round with greater than .002 runout rejected. Fire and document Anyone care to guess what will be revealed? Edited January 1, 2015 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Your using Redding S type dies, are you also turning necks for consistent thickness. That seems to be make a big difference when using collet dies. I actually don't use the Redding S as much as I use the Lee Collet neck die. The Redding S sizes based on the outside, which means the inside of the neck will not be consistent unless the necks are uniformed. The Lee is a cheap easy fix, as it sizes around a mandrel. The inside is uniform, even if the outside is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Lee, I don't turn the necks,... yet. I suppose that's about the only thing I don't do except to clean up the flash holes and sort the bullets. I will probably start turning necks when I get the tooling I want. Anything beyond that I will leave to the benchrest boys. Edited January 2, 2015 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm67 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Before you get too crazy with all of the caliber changes and exotic reloading practices...first get rid of the 168's. The don't stabilize nearly as well as 175's. Get some sierra's and find a load that works. I have had a few rifles act similar to yours and several were cured of the grouping issues by having a new crown cut on the barrel. While you have the gun with the smith (if you have one you really trust), have him pull the barrel and set it back a thread and rechamber the barrel. Unless something is really out of whack with you rifle most will shoot pretty well after having this much done. It sounds like you chamber is cut long and as long as you are running mag length rounds the freebore is going to be an issue. setting the barrel back and the crown will usually do the trick. I have given up on 168's and only shoot 155's or 175's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willz Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 We have been testing various reloading dies (seating dies specifically) and are seeing some possible contributors there. Off the shelf standard RCBS seating die for .308 was giving erratic results on concentricity. Out of 50 rounds, here are the results- less than .001 TOTAL indicator runout =5 .000 to .003 runout =32 .003 to .005 runout =9 .005 to .008 runout =4 Forster Benchrest seating die (with floating chamber) gave the following- less than .001 runout =47 .001 to .003 runout =3 measurement taken .050 ahead of case mouth, after crimping. 168gr hpbt match bullets used in both tests. Could definitely explain some of the "It was a good group and then.....dang..." experiences with the RCBS alignment issues. I have a Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die on order for just this reason. Seems everything I've read points to concentricity being a huge factor in load consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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