RippSpeed Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I saw this and made me wish I had my Glock 24 back ...Now I'm looking for a pair of Glock 34's in FDE and Gen 4's ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Doubt it. Looks like enough pretravel has been removed that either the trigger safety is inoperable or has been modified to work properly. Neither of which would be kosher in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Contact him. He states that all the safeties are operable. However that does not mean that his trigger is production legal. If there are any mods that are visible then of course not legal. He lives in Sarasota I tried to contact him several times with no luck. He even told me he was going to be at a gun show and then he didn't show. His website sucks. As of now I think the only trigger that is production legal and approved is the one by DKinsler. I tried it and although it didn't work for me a lot of shooters like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advan031 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) I have this trigger on my Glock 35 and all safeties are operating just fine especially the trigger/drop safety. Johnny can also hide the hex screw for the pre-travel adjustment so it's not visible. With that said I don't know if it's Production legal since I'll be using mine in Limited. Edited May 9, 2014 by Advan031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoog37 Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 His new website may be up now. Try reaching him on Facebook. I have one in my g34g4. I think it is very impressive, and all of the safeties work fine. I am local to him, so I had him work mine to my liking. I don't recall any visible mods, but never went hunting for them either, so cannot answer your production class question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Chips Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) To remove the pretravel, he had to trim the trigger safety, no way around it. If you trim it, that is external and not production legal. The trigger safety will still work as trimmed, but not production legal. Watched his videos, I never saw him check the firing pin safety, not to say he didn't, or it doesn't work. You can check the firing pin safety by assembling without the extractor. Edited May 10, 2014 by Potato Chips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNNYBOSS Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Also I know DK's triggers are approved and I recently saw one and my trigger safety tab has just as much purchase on the frame. I have plenty of shooters using that trigger in production class right as we speak so maybe I'll send a kit to John to see if I can be extended the same curiosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think the Zev standard triggers are the same (shortened pre-travel and trimmed trigger safety), and approved for Production. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I felt the trigger today... wow I want one for production... if its production legal. Edited May 11, 2014 by RippSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 It didn't help that the rulebook mentions the vanek trigger as being illegal yet the wording is from a 2008 ruling before charlie started making production legal triggers. I keep reading that DK or XX triggers are legal for production. Where is the ruling on those? Or are the builders just saying they are production legal? I have always wondered. I had a vanek in my G34 and it was awesome. The only external difference was when I cranked the pretravel out of it until it just barely passed the tab the trigger was much further back in the trigger guard compared to a stock glock. I wonder if that would constitute an external visible modification? Seems any trigger that has pretravel taken out is going to move the trigger back some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Chips Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I keep reading that DK or XX triggers are legal for production. Where is the ruling on those? Or are the builders just saying they are production legal? I have always wondered. Because they have shooters using them in production, they must be legal! Well, maybe not. I don't know the rules like most here, so I won't say more. I have a vanek housing, took out as much as I can without disabling the trigger safety. If substantial changes are made, I guess you could make the trigger release the firing pin right after the point where the trigger safety would stop the trigger. At that point, you'd also have to modify the drop and FP safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I can tell from the video that it isn't production legal. The face of the trigger safety has been profiled to match the trigger and it looks like the trigger safety engagement has been modified by removing material from the rear of the trigger safety where it contacts the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It didn't help that the rulebook mentions the vanek trigger as being illegal yet the wording is from a 2008 ruling before charlie started making production legal triggers. I keep reading that DK or XX triggers are legal for production. Where is the ruling on those? Or are the builders just saying they are production legal? I have always wondered. I had a vanek in my G34 and it was awesome. The only external difference was when I cranked the pretravel out of it until it just barely passed the tab the trigger was much further back in the trigger guard compared to a stock glock. I wonder if that would constitute an external visible modification? Seems any trigger that has pretravel taken out is going to move the trigger back some? Kevin, I shot with Daniel at BITBG. Evidently he submitted the trigger to JA, who said it was production legal. There was a transcript of the conversation they had about it floating around here somewhere. I just dropped his deluxe kit in a Gen 4 34, leaving the settings as they were, and so far have only dry fired it a couple hundred times. Like it so far. A Glock trigger will never be a 1911 trigger, but you can get used to it. Now, my M&P Shield trigger just plain sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Not Legal. Look at this image. You will see that at least half of the engagement area for the trigger safety has been removed to allow the trigger safety to engage much, much earlier in the trigger pull. Also, pay attention to the line arrow. It is really just there to show you the trigger safety is not contoured to the trigger and is exactly parallel to the line. The modified trigger has reshaped the pad of the trigger safety to more closely couture to the trigger. Nice mod, but not Production legal. Edited May 11, 2014 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It didn't help that the rulebook mentions the vanek trigger as being illegal yet the wording is from a 2008 ruling before charlie started making production legal triggers. I keep reading that DK or XX triggers are legal for production. Where is the ruling on those? Or are the builders just saying they are production legal? I have always wondered. I had a vanek in my G34 and it was awesome. The only external difference was when I cranked the pretravel out of it until it just barely passed the tab the trigger was much further back in the trigger guard compared to a stock glock. I wonder if that would constitute an external visible modification? Seems any trigger that has pretravel taken out is going to move the trigger back some? Kevin,I shot with Daniel at BITBG. Evidently he submitted the trigger to JA, who said it was production legal. There was a transcript of the conversation they had about it floating around here somewhere. I just dropped his deluxe kit in a Gen 4 34, leaving the settings as they were, and so far have only dry fired it a couple hundred times. Like it so far. A Glock trigger will never be a 1911 trigger, but you can get used to it. Now, my M&P Shield trigger just plain sucks. Thanks Bob. So I guess the thing to do would be to have that transcript in ones range bag until it becomes universally known. I remember a really old CRO type telling my G34 was illegal a few years ago at BITB because I had a grip plug in my gun. It was fully legal and widely acknowledged as such but he was still 3 books behind on the rules and said none were legal. Thank Goodness Gary knew the current rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) JA was likely just looking for the Vanek trigger pin mod which was externally visible and wasn't focused on the trigger safety modifications which are also clearly visible is you know what to look for.There is no way this trigger I legal. Folks like Vanek have already been shown this road and have made production version which are actually legal. These new guys who are coming along along might not be familiar with the roads we have traveled so don't understand which modifications are a no go. I watched his video and he didn't talk directly about the modifications that he has made to the trigger safety because he likely knows or suspects that they are not legal for Production. Again, see the image below, he has removed a massive relative amount of material from the rear of the trigger safety which is externally visible. He also did not demonstrate whether the trigger safety itself is still functional in the video which would be done by pulling on the side of the trigger without pressing the trigger safety. Edited May 11, 2014 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) JA was likely just looking for the Vanek trigger pin mod which was externally visible and wasn't focused on the trigger safety modifications which are also clearly visible is you know what to look for. There is no way this trigger I legal. Folks like Vanek have already been shown this road and have made production version which are actually legal. These new guys who are coming along along might not be familiar with the roads we have traveled so don't understand which modifications are a no go. I watched his video and he didn't talk directly about the modifications that he has made to the trigger safety because he likely knows or suspects that they are not legal for Production. Again, see the image below, he has removed a massive relative amount of material from the rear of the trigger safety which is externally visible. He also did not demonstrate whether the trigger safety itself is still functional in the video which would be done by pulling on the side of the trigger without pressing the trigger safety. For the questionable legality of the DK Custom Triggers, Mr Amidon told me he dropped the kit in his gun a G17 and tested it and it was good to go. Also the Vanek had the pin filled back in and had physically moved the pad up the bar itself completely. Only the one Vanek is listed as illegal from production he has other systems available. Now I dunno but personally but if I was the guy who was the last word on ruling then I think I would completely check the system before I said "yes it's ok" so I would say he checked it all. Edited May 11, 2014 by dskinsler83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Assuming we are talking about the trigger referenced above the modification is clearly externally visible as I have demonstrated. Can this be disputed? If it is externally visible then this mod is not legal for Production. The same goes for any Glock trigger job which modifies the trigger safety to change its engagement point. If JA examined this particular mod then it's possible that he was not familiar with the stock configuration of the trigger safety and overlooked it's significant modification. I would like to see the email thread if you have it because this is not right. Edited May 11, 2014 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Your above pictures are not of my trigger I was simply referring to my system sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Thinks and sorry for the confusion. Some not one is arguing that the Johnny Glock trigger is Production legal at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Your above pictures are not of my trigger I was simply referring to my system sorry So I just looked at yours and it looks from a distance on your Web page it like you have done the same mod to the trigger safety that is absolutely externally visible. This seems very unfair as that was one of the elements of the original Vanek that NROI identified as being not legal in Production. Has the rule changed somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) My understanding from John as stated is the system is legal. The safety tab is functional and I brought everything that I do to my system to his attention. The ZEV standard trigger bar has the same modification to the safety tab as well and so does Glocktriggers.com The Edge. Again it is approved for use. My understanding is the safety tab is considered interal to the trigger pad and no face work was done to the tab where your finger actually touches. I also do not write the rules. I have not implied or falsified my approval. I'm certian Amidon knows what he is doing and what to look for. Again I can only speak for my system no others. Edited May 11, 2014 by dskinsler83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I am going to go ahead and shut up now. I had no idea that this mod as so widespread and is being overlooked as being legal. I don't think you would argue that you can't see it from "external." I used the original Vanek beginning in 2003 until the ruling made it clear that it wouldn't fly. Apparently the focus was only on the new pin hole, not only the other external trigger modifications. This ruling is what ultimately pushed me to change platforms to CZ. I wish interpretation of rules was more consistent to remove obvious conflicts like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 So to recap and completely change my ill-informed initial response, it appears to me that the Johnny Glock Trigger in the video is no more illegal than the other common "Production" race trigger mods from other gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) I do not own any Glock, but am intrigued by this topic. In short, as long as the below three conditions are met, the trigger should be legal -- right? (1) No external, visible modification (2) Trigger safety should be preserved and function (3) External, visible trigger position, when the gun is in battery, should be same as that of a stock trigger Edited May 11, 2014 by justaute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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