First 3Gun Match- What Do We Need?

[Outbreak]

My club is planning its first 3-gun match in a little over a week. The range employee that has been running the USPSA matches got tasked with this having never shot a 3-gun match. I've shot a handful (maybe 10 club matches total between about 5 clubs) and it appears I'm one of the most experienced 3-gunners in town. (I don't know if the more experienced guys are helping at all).

I texted the range employee to ask if I could help in any way. He has no idea what he's doing, no stages planned, no equipment lists, nothing. I'm jumping in and trying to help because I want this first match to be a success. We have successfully started a USPSA club that now brings in out-of-town shooters, and I hope we can have similar success with 3-gun. But I've never done anything but attend and shoot 3-gun matches.

So far, I've given him the following list of needs:

1. Which set of rules we're using.

2. Long-gun ditching barrels (with carpet; club has barrels)

3. Boxes to ditch pistols in (I'm going to try to keep this to a minimum and try to design most stages to finish with pistols)

4. Stakes to hold clays

5. clays

6. Racks for long-guns (i.e. pre-staging shotguns and storage of un-cased long-guns)

7. List of all equipment the range has (steels, poppers, target stands, walls ,etc) I have an idea of what we have, and I'm going to go to the range and count the trailer for myself. I think we're going to have a lot of really open stages.

I haven't even started designing stages, but we have three 50x50yd bays and one rifle range that goes out to ~350. Any ideas or stage designs would be very appreciated. Tips, tricks, recommendations, criticism, condescention, etc are all welcome. I'm glad I asked when I did, but we only have about 10 days to throw together at least 3 relatively simple stages for a first club match. I need every bit of help I can get!

Thanks in advance!

Outbreak

Edited May 9, 2014 by Outbreak

[blairmckenzie1]

wide packing tape if you plan to shoot slugs on paper, some sort of prop to shoot long range off of ( vtac, spool, ext.), mini metrics and mini classics make up for distance if you are lacking. shotgun preload tables.

Edited May 9, 2014 by blairmckenzie1

[toothandnail]

Well, we held a 3 gun match without EVER seeing or shooting one, about 7 years ago, people still ask when we are having another.

We just built a 8 bay range +1 shotgun only area.

Anyway, IMO, set up the stages so the shooters won't be standing around with nothing to do for long periods, going to be hard with only 3 stages.

That was why we stopped, number of shooters vs number of stages got too large

You already have experience with a pistol match, just build off that.

[Outbreak]

Definitely gonna have some slug shots on paper. I'm sure we can find a prop for the long-range shots (range also has a paintball course, so we gots props!). We have range and I'm planning on a 24"x24" plate at 300-350 for score, and a 6"x6" plate at the same distance for bonus. We only have one range long enough to do that, so it will literally be the biggest stage, and likely incorporate all three guns.

I estimate three stages only because I don't know if we have enough target stands, steels, walls etc for more than that. We can probably add a fourth pistol-only stage in the "special" bay, which has a target system installed.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

Edited May 9, 2014 by Outbreak

[LoganbillJ]

Take inventory of what you have at the range and what you can borrow from other shooters if possible. Design stages from that.

Use shooting and loading on the move. Allow shooters options if possible. Pistol or shotgun on some plates and pistol or rifle on paper targets. It allows the shooter to play to their strength or what they think is their strength. It also gives a larger spread on stage times depending on how it is shot. Risk/Reward shots are good too. I don't know what you have to work with target wise or I could help you out a bit more.

[usmc1094]

You could do some of the 3 gun nation classifiers. They are normally fast to reset and are a lot of fun to shoot.

[Dan Sierpina]

Do not put carpet in the barrels!! A hot muzzle brake will melt the carpet. Use cardboard for the bottom of the dump barrels.

[toothandnail]

You could do some of the 3 gun nation classifiers. They are normally fast to reset and are a lot of fun to shoot.

IMO, 3GN classifiers are too short, especially if you are limited in the number of stages.

3 classifiers, the WHOLE shooting time would be 60-80 seconds at the longest

I would not be happy if I showed up at a match like that. Been there, shot that.

Advertised as a 10 stage 2 day match, 5 or 6 were classifiers, we could have shot it in 1 day easy, but nope, had to stay the extra day.

Done by 2 the first day, 11 the second.

OP, make sure and be clear this is the first 3gun match at your location, and you want feed back as to how to make it better. As you plan on having them regularly, most guys will have no problem helping you grow your match.

[StealthyBlagga]

In no particular order, here are some lessons I have learned from running monthly 3-Gun matches and an annual major (SMM3G) at our range for several years:

1) For your first match, try not to be too wildly ambitious. Until you get some experience on YOUR range with YOUR people, you won't know how fast stages will get turned around.

2) Use Time-Plus scoring. Competitors like it well enough, and it is far more efficient on reset time than if your ROs have to call ABCDs. Score sheets are simple to record and simple to enter in stats. Practiscore supports Time-Plus if you want to use electronic scoring.

3) Limit the number of three-gun stages. Competitors love stages that use all their guns, but be advised that these are time consuming to clear and reset. We typically focus on 1- and 2- long-gun stages at our monthly matches, with very little pistol (we have multiple pistol-only matches each week to choose from already).

4) Pre-load shotguns in a designated location away from everything else and pointed into the side berm. For an unsquadded match, only allow the on-deck shooter to pre-load, make them leave the chamber empty, and only allow pre-loading under constant supervision of an RO.

5) Be careful about mixing shot and slugs - this can be a DQ trap if you aren't careful (slug fired at close steel or flipper clays). Static clays mixed with slug paper is inherently safer than having close-range birdshot steel.

6) What competitors really like is when they have options to engage targets with the gun of their choice (e.g. steel with shotgun or pistol). This introduces a new dimension of strategy, and lets the competitor play to their strengths. However, for pistol/shotgun options, make sure the pistol shots are hard (i.e. distant targets) or the choice becomes a no-brainer in favor of pistol. Also, balancing the sensitivity of falling targets is a challenge - a pistol plate rack or star set too light will drop multiple plates when hit on the superstructure by a heavy shotgun load, and sadly you will get some folks who bring extra heavy loads to cause this to happen deliberately (i.e. cheat).

7) Everyone likes real-world props... cars, tanks, helicopters, buildings, whatever you can get your hands on. Force unusual shooting positions such as shooting long-guns under cars etc. Most folks don't practice this and it really challenges them. Just be careful folks aren't skipping rounds off the vehicle.

9) For long-range rifle, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE paint the targets before the match starts, and repaint at least once a day on multi-day events (twice a day is better). Also, use contrasting colored backers; we use white plastic barrels behind targets painted black, but Corplast works great too. If not using backers, budget time to go out and rake the divots behind the targets (they go black when the sun is in the wrong place). If you can't see the targets clearly through a small A2 aperture sight, from first shot in the morning to last shot at night, you are doing it wrong. If using self-resetting targets then assign an RO with binoculars to call hits (make sure they are watching the right targets), or better still have targets that fall and stay fallen (plate racks with cable reset are ideal). Oh, and the shootable area of rifle targets should be no smaller than 4MOA at range (e.g. 8" at 200yds, 12" at 300yds etc.) as this represents the accuracy capability of a rack-grade M4 with M193 ammo.

10) Set a time limit for all stages, especially long-range rifle. Folks will happily bang away all day if you let them, and this will kill your schedule. We enforce the time limit using the timer's par-time function set to 180 seconds - when the timer beeps, we stop the competitor and score the stage as shot with actual time to last shot and all applicable miss/FTE penalties. I don't recall if USPSA rules allow this... we run under IMA outlaw rules.

11) Design good abandonment receptacles. For long guns we favor 55 gallon plastic barrels with wood ramps inside to guide the muzzle in a safe direction. Plastic trash cans work too. Stake them down. Don't line with carpet, as this melts to the competitors' guns - bare wood or cardboard is better.

12) Slug paper targets should be backed by Corplast or plywood to prevent wads from scoring.

13) Shotgun steels must be rigged to prevent them turning on their base, which can otherwise become a reshoot nightmare.

14) If using flipper clays, invest in the Black Sheep flippers. We now use them exclusively due to their unbelievable consistency compared with all other clay thrower options on the market. I would say that if you don't have these clay particular flippers, do not use flying clays at all.

15) Mix IPSC Metric and IPSC Classic targets on multi-gun stages so that the competitor knows which gun to use on which target.

16) Avoid forcing tight shots around walls with shotguns. Competitors will blast gaping holes in the edges of your walls, causing delays while Mr Fixit has to patch things up. We use plastic 55 gallon barrels on wall corners to soak up the damage.

17) Don't use unloaded gun starts, especially holstered pistols, unless absolutely necessary (e.g. if a shooter could go prone with rifle while wearing a pistol). When the competitor is out of breath with sweaty hands, asking them to draw their empty pistol and load it on the clock is setting them up for a DQ due to a dropped gun or 180 issue. Why set them up to fail? A condition 3 start (cruiser ready) is safer if you feel a chambered round is a problem.

18) Check everyone's ammo with a magnet. If their projectile attracts a magnet, don't let them shoot it. Some military ammo (e.g. M855 green tip, surplus Russian 5.45x39) contains a tungsten penetrator that can damage your steel targets. More important for us in the desert southwest is that ANY steel in the projectile will cause sparks and potentially a fire.

19) Lastly, try to streamline the multi-gun stages by having the guns abandoned close to each other. If possible, have the competitor moving ACROSS the bay rather than DOWN the bay so they can clear their guns more quickly after finishing (of course, you are at the mercy of your bay layout). Also, unless you have permanent stage ROs with 3-Gun experience, I recommend against allowing any guns to be cleared by anyone except the shooter after they have finished shooting.

I suggest you watch some videos of matches - you can see the kind of stages we run at our range on our YouTube Channel . I also have a big library of stage designs we have used over the years that I would be happy to share with you... just send me an email.

[usmc1094]

name="toothandnail"ost="2162322" timestamp="1399650627"]

You could do some of the 3 gun nation classifiers. They are normally fast to reset and are a lot of fun to shoot.

IMO, 3GN classifiers are too short, especially if you are limited in the number of stages.

3 classifiers, the WHOLE shooting time would be 60-80 seconds at the longest

I would not be happy if I showed up at a match like that. Been there, shot that.

Advertised as a 10 stage 2 day match, 5 or 6 were classifiers, we could have shot it in 1 day easy, but nope, had to stay the extra day.

Done by 2 the first day, 11 the second.

OP, make sure and be clear this is the first 3gun match at your location, and you want feed back as to how to make it better. As you plan on having them regularly, most guys will have no problem helping you grow your match.I didnt mean only use those. The range here has had classifiers and then set it up for another stage. They normally have extra steel already in position so all that has to be done is stand it up and now you have another stage.

So if they have 3 bays they could use 1 or 2 classifiers then use the same bay to have a bigger stage with just a little more reset time. If you do a classifier stage that only uses steel you could put paper targets around the bay to use for the next stage and not have it be confusing on witch targets are for what.

"PNTC Nov. 3gun Stage 4" on YouTube

PNTC Nov. 3gun Stage 4:

This was the classifier "crash and burn" (I think) after it was reset to make another stage.

Edited May 9, 2014 by usmc1094

[Gooldylocks]

Unrelated to the actual topic, but what was with the calibration of those poppers? There were a few that got hit several times and still didn't want to fall!

[usmc1094]

Unrelated to the actual topic, but what was with the calibration of those poppers? There were a few that got hit several times and still didn't want to fall!

I guess more than my 115g 9mm lol

That was a sunday shoot and some for the ppl that shot Saturday said I was taking a .45 to knock some of them down. And dont mind my wife laughing at the end lol.

Edited May 9, 2014 by usmc1094

[Outbreak]

Thanks for all the help, guys. The weekend was a great success. The match ran pretty slow, but the out-of-towners enjoyed it and said they'd be back. We ended up with 4 stages, I only ended up designing one by myself, and plenty of folks helped out with targets, design, and plenty of elbow grease to make it all happen.

[usmc1094]

Glad worked out good for you!

[toothandnail]

Thanks for all the help, guys. The weekend was a great success. The match ran pretty slow, but the out-of-towners enjoyed it and said they'd be back. We ended up with 4 stages, I only ended up designing one by myself, and plenty of folks helped out with targets, design, and plenty of elbow grease to make it all happen.

Highlighted part is the most important.

good Job , now the fun starts, think what you can do to speed things up and make it better the next time.

I think most guys, if they know it's a new venue, are willing to put up with a few bumps in the road.