Avoiding 180 Problems

[JeffWard]

We have a steady influx of new shooters at Wyoming Antelope Club, and I design a LOT of stages for our matches. YES... it's up to the shooter, especially at a major match, but at our evening fun-shoots, we try to barrel up, or simply avoid possible 180s. Keeping new shooters in the sport is good for the sport, and the club. Sending newbies home on their first night with a 180 DQ ensures a VERY low re-show rate.

Level II or higher match? Shooter-be-ware.

Level I or Fun-Shoot? Barrel it up.

JeffWard

[Ray_Z]

What's wrong with just putting a warning in the stage directions? " Warning, be aware of your 180 at all times while engaging this COF ". If the shooter doesn't take the hint and he doesn't heed the reminder he deserves to go home early.

[Graham Smith]

We do a warning in the match brief and if there are any places in any stages where extra caution is prudent, I try and point them out. But this still boils down to two fundamental questions.

1. Do the rules say that designers MUST protect the targets from being seen and shot from past the 180.

2. Do you do take these precautions even if the rules don't say you must?

[bikerburgess]

We do a warning in the match brief and if there are any places in any stages where extra caution is prudent, I try and point them out. But this still boils down to two fundamental questions.

1. Do the rules say that designers MUST protect the targets from being seen and shot from past the 180.

2. Do you do take these precautions even if the rules don't say you must?

1. I believe it does, but I know there is debate about that and disagreement in the higher ranks of the NROI

2. Yes, because I can't see where it compromises my stage design options, and it only costs me some extra work to set up.

[alma]

We do a warning in the match brief and if there are any places in any stages where extra caution is prudent, I try and point them out. But this still boils down to two fundamental questions.

1. Do the rules say that designers MUST protect the targets from being seen and shot from past the 180.

2. Do you do take these precautions even if the rules don't say you must?

1. I believe it does, but I know there is debate about that and disagreement in the higher ranks of the NROI

2. Yes, because I can't see where it compromises my stage design options, and it only costs me some extra work to set up.

That must be why DNROI ignored my emails about this question.

[remoandiris]

You have it surrounded. IF the rule is intended to mean you have to protect the targets beyond the 180 then we are getting into some really shaky ground.

Protection2.JPG

In this example, T1 is in a position where the shooter would have to be really careful not to go past the 180 when shooting it, but T2 is far enough past the shooting position to be "safe". BUT, once past the wall, the shooter can easily turn and engage both and break the 180 even though it's a clear violation. Do I have to protect against them doing that???

IMO, no, you do not. As others have already mentioned, COFs with targets positioned like this happen at all levels of matches with experienced MDs and RMs approving target positioning.

[Graham Smith]

Well, I never expected it to get this complicated. The big problem I have with all the protection is that it's easy to turn an open field course into a stand-here-shoot-this course. All the extra barrels and walls and no-shoots can clutter up a stage and force the shooter to shoot the targets from particular locations.

FWIW, at our match yesterday we had a 180 DQ on a stage with a number of no-shoots positioned to prevent 180's. And I included a warning about this particular stage during my briefing. It's my opinion that the DQ happened, in part, because of all the extra no-shoots. They did as much to confuse the stage as to help.

[Seth]

In the end, the stage designer cannot Bandaid bad gun handling. I always said that my principle job as MD and stage designer was to account for every piece of lead that was fired at that days match. The tools in the chest are limited and are getting more limited every year with more concern over liability and a steady influx of inexperienced shooters.

With that said, the rules allow targets from 0-90* from the median backstop. 10.5.2 forbids a competitor from engaging any target that's available beyond that fixed angle. Simple as that.

[HeathForbis]

I also think that if it's a local club match the R.O. should be pointing out 180 "traps" to new shooters during stage brief and a reminder when they are up. If we want the sport to grow it has to be safe and it has to be fun. Sending a new shooter home is just bad press and can be avoided.