WSB. COF

[EEH]

On signal engage targets as available from within fault lines,,briefcase must be moved from table A. To table B before the last shot..

Now to game it,,while moving the briefcase you encounter three very close targets you have to shoot one handed -you could put the case down on each shot I know-- put the case on table and shoot five or six shots to finish stage.

So what if you leave the case on table A and never move it to table B,

Do you get one penalty for leaving the case,or one for each shot fired at those three targets you normally would have shot one handed,and you can now shoot them freestyle ?

I say one for each shot,,couple others said only one

Rule 10.2.2

Edited March 23, 2014 by EEH

[Poppa Bear]

If they address it directly by writing it into the WSB then one per, otherwise one for failure to follow the WSB.

[bagdad45]

I agree with Poppa Bear. Unless it is in stage briefing one procedural.

[Nik Habicht]

If they address it directly by writing it into the WSB then one per, otherwise one for failure to follow the WSB.

I gotta tell you, if working as an RM there's no way I approve writing in "one per"........

Make the case serve a purpose, and shooters will carry it. If it's just another requirement, shooters will do the math, and figure out if they'll be better off taking the ten point hit -- which is the intent of freestyle.....

[Poppa Bear]

I agree but I have shot many matches where the have assessed 1 per shot for failing to hold the object in the right position, or having the object fall off the table.

[EEH]

If they address it directly by writing it into the WSB then one per, otherwise one for failure to follow the WSB.

I gotta tell you, if working as an RM there's no way I approve writing in "one per"........

Make the case serve a purpose, and shooters will carry it. If it's just another requirement, shooters will do the math, and figure out if they'll be better off taking the ten point hit -- which is the intent of freestyle.....

This is what I was thinking.

[ChuckS]

This is an example of an object serving a purpose from 2013 Area 1 - Stage 1 "Salem". You had to move a bag from the start position to use to activate a swinger down range.

POV:

Later,

Chuck

[Fireant]

Since the WSB says before the last shot, you can only get 1 procedural. If you want it to be more, you have to have another way of doing it.

[Nik Habicht]

I agree but I have shot many matches where the have assessed 1 per shot for failing to hold the object in the right position, or having the object fall off the table.

So have I, but let's not encourage the practice..... :P

[Nik Habicht]

Since the WSB says before the last shot, you can only get 1 procedural. If you want it to be more, you have to have another way of doing it.

Correct -- anything else violates freestyle.....

[EEH]

Well Ii think I got my answer.After re reading the WSB, I think one penalty would be right..

On to the next one

[22 shooter]

I set up the stage and the briefing read as he described. "On signal engage targets as available from within fault lines,,briefcase must be moved from table A. to table B before the last shot." One procedural would be the call. I was suprised that I didn't see anyone not pick up the briefcase and take the 10 point penalty. I know the top 9 guys on the stage did not skip carrying the case

[EEH]

I saw by the scores you didn't leave it .

The way I shoot I need all the help I can get.

Good stage,I enjoyed it.thanks for your work..

[CZinSC]

I set up the stage and the briefing read as he described. "On signal engage targets as available from within fault lines,,briefcase must be moved from table A. to table B before the last shot." One procedural would be the call. I was suprised that I didn't see anyone not pick up the briefcase and take the 10 point penalty. I know the top 9 guys on the stage did not skip carrying the case

Glenn F and i ran some numbers today. If you left the case and took the penalty, for Production you would have had to finish 1.8 seconds faster just to make it a wash, limited was 1.5, open was 1.4. ( simple math just based on first place finishers performance, you could say your hits on the targets you shot one handed would have been better scores had you not had the case in your hand, so it's not a perfect model, but you get the idea ).

In other words, hindsight it doesn't appear leaving the case was worth it. Wish I could say that was why i chose to leave it...but sadly no. I just didn't have my Gamer hat on that day!

[22 shooter]

I set up the stage and the briefing read as he described. "On signal engage targets as available from within fault lines,,briefcase must be moved from table A. to table B before the last shot." One procedural would be the call. I was suprised that I didn't see anyone not pick up the briefcase and take the 10 point penalty. I know the top 9 guys on the stage did not skip carrying the case

After reading the rulebook I'm not so sure one procedural is right.

10.2.2 says: A competitor who fails to comply with a procedure specified in the written stage briefing will incur one procedural penalty for each occur-rence. However, if a competitor has gained a significant advantage dur-ing non-compliance, the competitor may be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired, instead of a single penalty (e.g. firing multiple shots contrary to the required position or stance).

Would not carrying the briefcase be a significant advantage? I thinks so.

[CZinSC]

Ah yes...the old Significant Advantage clause. I wish they would take that out of the rulebook as EVERYTHING we do is a significant advantage! From cleats and grip tape to $5000 race guns to not carrying a briefcase on a stage.

i can give you a Level 2 example that is VERY similar to this stage. I shot the Ohio Sectional in 2012. One of the stages was pick up a pair of handcuffs and deposit on table before last shot. Almost everyone DID NOT comply because it was ruled it was only going to be one procedural. Was it called correctly? I don't know. But i know that is how it was called for that match.

[blueorb]

I think it really goes back to what Nik said earlier. If I am designing a stage with something like carrying or moving something it needs to be for a purpose. Open a port or activate targets or something. Otherwise, if it only counts as one procedural, the math will almost force everyone not to comply.

[EEH]

10.2.2. Was the rule I read.Any time I can shoot free style,other than one handed,I have an advantage for me anyway..

[Nik Habicht]

I set up the stage and the briefing read as he described. "On signal engage targets as available from within fault lines,,briefcase must be moved from table A. to table B before the last shot." One procedural would be the call. I was suprised that I didn't see anyone not pick up the briefcase and take the 10 point penalty. I know the top 9 guys on the stage did not skip carrying the case

After reading the rulebook I'm not so sure one procedural is right.

10.2.2 says: A competitor who fails to comply with a procedure specified in the written stage briefing will incur one procedural penalty for each occur-rence. However, if a competitor has gained a significant advantage dur-ing non-compliance, the competitor may be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired, instead of a single penalty (e.g. firing multiple shots contrary to the required position or stance).

Would not carrying the briefcase be a significant advantage? I thinks so.

It's a significant advantage -- but look at what point the requirement is imposed.

briefcase must be moved from table A. to table B before the last shot

Ergo, moving the briefcase can only be an advantage for the last shot......

....hence a single procedural is the correct call for this.....