Toughest division to start in for USPSA?

[aandabooks]

I've been wondering what the opinion would be about what most people believe the toughest division to get started in is? Take cost of equipment out of the equation. I'm talking about competition at a match, how much thinking is involved in reloads, shooting sequence etc.

I'm new to this sport with two matches completed. I've chosen production so far. What is everyone's opinion?

[Scott in OK]

I have always told people the toughest division is the one you are in.

Also told people the toughest class is the one you are in.

Scott

[CB45]

In terms of being competitive in each division, I don't see any difference. Within each division everybody has the same disadvantages.

Open really pushes the speed envelope.

Limited has speed, recoil, and iron sights.

Production has reloads and minor scoring.

SS has skinny mags, reloads, and recoil.

Rev has a ton of reloads and stratigic stage planning.

Good luck and enjoy! All divisions can be fun.

[bikerburgess]

I would rank the divisions from hardest to easiest

Revolver, you are always out of bullets

Single Stack, you don't get many options for when to reload

Production, you get some options on reloads but all scored minor

L10, same as production but you can shoot major and single action

Limited, lots of options on where and when to reload and you can shoot major

Open, even more options on if and when to reload, you can shoot major and a the big one is a red dot sight.

Mike

[45dotACP]

They're all pretty tough, but I'd say Revo would be the hardest just on the basis that you reload a lot.

I am a production shooter mostly but thinking of trying out single stack. I'd probably say the greatest variation in gear you will encounter in Limited. You have guys with Glock 35's and on the other end, there are people with double stack 1911's. The recoil of a .40 caliber is not as gentle as the typical 9mm that most production shooters shoot and your reloads will be affected by how many rounds your magazine holds (if you have an extended mag or just a standard capacity 15 round mag for a glock). And then of course, there's power factor and whether or not you make power factor can dictate whether or not you win a match because you made it, or lose one because your reloads were just on the edge and you didn't make major at the chrony station. Not being a limited shooter however, I cannot really comment on that.

I suspect they are all ridiculously fun, and I'm loving production.

Edited December 28, 2013 by 45dotACP

[Jammer1911]

I disagree Biker, Single Stack has many options. "If your feet are moving, your reloading". LOL

[aandabooks]

I have been shooting a xdm 5.25" in production. My club allows reshoots in another division for another $5 after everyone has shot the first time. I was thinking about either shooting the same gun and declaring for Limited. I would take a hit on the scoring but I could load the mags up to 19. The whole match this Sunday is 3 stages with a 48 round count. I could potentially run each stage with no reloads.

The other option would be to bring my Colt 1911 and tryout shooting the same course in SS. I would be scored major but I really haven't been doing any practice for reloads with the Colt.

I've had the feeling that by deciding on Production for my division I was putting myself in a more difficult division to shoot in. I would really like to shoot in revolver down the road but I am no where near ready for that.

[ErichF]

I shoot my XDM 5.25 in Limited minor every year at the Monster Match, and I can still hold my own against the major PF and fancy all-steel guns. The rest of the year I shoot Production.

As for the OP, think of what Division we generally steer newbies: Limited. Limited can be both the easier, less stressful Division and at the same time be the most difficult. Easier for the less competitive shooters because reloads are less frequent with most modern double stacks, and equipment restrictions are minimal. More difficult for the competitive shooters because of the wider range of equipment brought to bear by your fellow Division competitors. Limited arguably has the widest range of gun and equipment options next to Open, but you have to stick with iron sights and no recoil reduction options. Production guns, by design of the Division, are essentially the same and equipment restrictions put most people on the same level field. We Production shooters are often playing a different game than the Open and Limited shooters, as are the poor souls subjecting themselves to Revolver

Edited December 28, 2013 by ErichF

[bigfish]

I would say that production would probably be more difficult then singlestack. In single stack you have the option to score minor and then you have just as many rounds in the gun as in prod. You will loose capacity but you can score major also if you choose. Singlestack reloads can be more difficult then in a production gun but you have magwells so that kind makes it even. Also generally speaking the guns in singlestack are much better then the guns in production. More accurate and better triggers. The top of the line production guns are what $1500 vs a $3000 plus custom 1911?

[Trebor Snave]

I would really like to shoot in revolver down the road but I am no where near ready for that.

If you really want to shoot revo, don't wait. Start practicing your reloads now and get to it!

[alecmc]

I would really like to shoot in revolver down the road but I am no where near ready for that.

If you really want to shoot revo, don't wait. Start practicing your reloads now and get to it!

go for it. Revolver division is usually a lonely , but a very gratifying division

[aandabooks]

We only have one revolver guy at our club and he doesn't always shoot revolver. I'm not setup for it. I own several revolvers but none of them are appropriate unless I'm missing something. I have: GP100, 28-2, 642, Taurus M44 and a couple .22 revolvers. The closest one would probably be the S&W 28-2. I've been lusting after a 625 or 627 for awhile now. I keep spending my gun budget on other things.

[dskinsler83]

I would say that production would probably be more difficult then singlestack. In single stack you have the option to score minor and then you have just as many rounds in the gun as in prod. You will loose capacity but you can score major also if you choose. Singlestack reloads can be more difficult then in a production gun but you have magwells so that kind makes it even. Also generally speaking the guns in singlestack are much better then the guns in production. More accurate and better triggers. The top of the line production guns are what $1500 vs a $3000 plus custom 1911?

SS is only a tad harder than production from reload stand point. It's easier to hit a big opening that an tiny slit even with a magwell in SS.

[Sarge]

OPEN

[Neomet]

I would rate them toughest to easiest as:

Revo. Standing reloads, a miss is crushing, heavy DA trigger, short stroking, difficulty of reloads, other shooters stomping on your moonclips as they do another stage walkthrough right behind you rather than help reset the stage.

Single Stack. Skinny gun = tougher reloads. 8 rounds will punish you almost as much as in Revo. If you shoot major you will wish you had brought your minor gun for the extra rounds and if you shoot minor you will wish you had brought your big boy for the dropped points. Also I am amazed at the number of these that I see acting as finicky as any Open gun.

Production. 10 rounds can suck but nothing like 6 rounds. Personally I think the minor PF argument doesn't wash. Everyone is shooting minor. Granted it will really beat you about the head and shoulders if you shoot faster than your skill sets but that is your choice. You have to live with the condescending and inaccurate general perception that this is "the beginner's division."

Open. Reload becomes a word you use to describe what you do with your Dillon 650. Fat magwell, comps, bells, whistles, doo-dads. Just don't think that simply because you have a dot that you will be able to find it when you start. The comedic highlight of many a match is the new open shooter trying to run a weak hand classifier. It takes time and practice. Some Open guns can be less than reliable. Some. While it won't bleed you white like a mid 60s British roadster it ain't cheap. Guns, mags, everything.

Limited. Big magwell, lots of bullets, sights you know how to use. Generally as reliable as anything in a game. Recoil can be an issue but if it is shoot limited minor either with a 9 or downloaded .40. On the Chuck Norris stud scale it ranks only behind SS. You don't need to spend much to get started or to be very competitive.

YMMV

[bigfish]

I would say that production would probably be more difficult then singlestack. In single stack you have the option to score minor and then you have just as many rounds in the gun as in prod. You will loose capacity but you can score major also if you choose. Singlestack reloads can be more difficult then in a production gun but you have magwells so that kind makes it even. Also generally speaking the guns in singlestack are much better then the guns in production. More accurate and better triggers. The top of the line production guns are what $1500 vs a $3000 plus custom 1911?

SS is only a tad harder than production from reload stand point. It's easier to hit a big opening that an tiny slit even with a magwell in SS.

Outside of a slight reload advantage singlestacks guns still have every advantage there is in terms of the guns being used. Unless you have a stage meltdown or a very poor stage plan, reloads should be done on the move so that kind of erases the vast majority of any reload advantage with a prod gun.

[davsco]

i haven't shot revolver but would say that is the hardest - lots of reloading.

from the other divisions, i'd say single stack is the hardest. reloading with skinny mags. plus you can't 'cheat' off how everyone with 10 round mags (production or L 10) shoots a stage.

[ZackJones]

I'm going to say revolver because that's what I'm shooting now and it's harder for me than production, limited and limited 10 which I've shot in the past. I think revolver is going to get even harder after Feb 2014 when the 8-shot minor revolvers are allowed to play. I think those of us sticking with 6-shot revolvers will be doing even more reloading than we're doing now.

[Chris iliff]

OPEN

Yep, this one is it. The absolute hardest one.

But you have a dot, blah blah blah.

Ok, I got a dot, now what? I don't have to hold it still? I don't have to line it up? I don't have to find the dot?

The dot ain't magic people. The only thing a dot gets me, thank goodness, is ONE FOCAL PLANE.. That's gonna come as a shock to some, but that's it as far as I know. I'm not even sure on targets 10yards and closer, if that's even a big deal?

It also gets me doing everything faster, I mean everything, because everyone else is doing it faster. It's faster because if shot right, I don't have to bounce my eyes back and forth from targets to sight, targets to sights. I just use one focus. Target.

I think some see the Open guy just blazing away and finishing faster and it just looks easier to them, so it's gotta be easy. Geez I wish.

I do know that to make the next class it is a much higher % on most classifiers than any other division. And not a little, like a percent or two, but quite a bit on some, quite a bit.

IMHO it is hardest division to make GM. Now that is not the OP's question, but to me, it is how I'd define which division is the hardest.

In terms of shooting and reloads, I'd agree Open is the easiest. The guns shoot flatter and you reload less.

Stage breakdown? Sounds easy, but you better have it figured because one mistake or miscalculation and you are toast. IMHO other divisions are more forgiving because the breakdowns don't have to be as pure. Again IMHO.

[Torogi]

but i think in reality most new shooters shoot production. which is tough as it is. if i give an advise to a new shooter and i always tell them, if you can afford it, Open Div is where the fun is=)

No reload, compensated gun, fancy set up. Just deal with the optic and noise and you will be fine=)

[Nimitz]

As usual Chris you are spot on ... People see a top GM shooting open and think its easy. Go watch Ben shoot Production and you'll think it's easy as well. Like you I think making GM in open is the toughest but using the OP's criteria I would give the nod to revo but not by much. For the criteria he listed all divisions will be equally difficult as the challenges associated with your competition, reloading and target sequence are not really tied to which gun you shoot. There is no one div which has an advantage (or disadvantage) in every criteria or category you can name so it's kinda wash in my mind ...

I decided to compete in Production initially simply because it was the least expensive div overall when you consider everything and allows me to put 25,000 rds/ yr downrange. Once I achieve all my goals in Production I'll be selling everything that doesn't transfer and moving to Open. Why, because quite frankly, shooting a red dot optic gun is a lot of fun, not becuase of any particular challenge the division presents over any other division,

[aandabooks]

I shot production with my SA 5.25" and ran the same course with my Colt 1911 today. I don't have the match results yet but for this course the SS was the more challenging just due to design. I shoot the Colt very well at the range or while shooting Bullseye but I did notice being much slower and not as accurate under match pressure. Mainly due to the increased recoil and not having practiced with the gun towards USPSA conditions.

I think I'm going to stick with production for the time being and maybe declare in Limited occasionally just to run full mags. I know I'll take the scoring hit.

[45dotACP]

I think I read something that Caleb Giddings of Gun Nuts along the lines of "what your division says about you." It's a pretty damn funny read

[CHLChris]

Easiest to get started in (opposite question of OP) is Limited. Since you can load up your magazines, you can pretty much start with 3 or 4 mags, which also means fewer mag pouches. It also means you can pretty much use any holster that people own. Granted, with this set-up, you may not be competitive until you have mag extensions, but Production and L-10 require more magazines to complete stages with steel if you miss a lot.

I'll be starting my dad out this Saturday in Limited minor with a Glock 19 and standard 15- and 17-round mags. He won't be competitive, but he won't be as hampered by so many reloads as the Production, SS, Revo, or L-10 shooters.

[perrysho]

For What It's Worth !

No one seem to be talking wallet pain for OPEN.

Pistol cost, who built the pistol, will it run?? Cost if it don't run ??

Mags, kinda guts and base pads are they tuned to the pistol??

Belt, holsters, mag pouches and etc ??

Open and Limited can cause pains in the butt where you carry the wallet. LOL

Happy New Year,

Perry