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Swingers


brongy

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I have been having difficulty with swingers on how to engage them im still a novice with just a few match experiences. So i would like to ask the pros here. How do you train for swingers. I simply cant do a double tap on them i seem to get lost once the first shot is fired i then have to wait for the target to swing back from the starting point.

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No pro by any means here...but this is what I try to do...

During the walkthrough, have the RO activate the swinger and watch where the target stops before it goes the other way. Then when you go to shoot the stage, remember where that sweet spot was. Activate the target and put your sights in that spot and wait for the target to appear and you should be able to get a shot or two on it...but your sights need to be where the target will stop.

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The method described above is what I did for years. It is called trapping. You will notice that most of the top shooters "track" swingers. It takes some practice and a little dedication, but it is very worth the results.

Tracking is moving the gun with the target and breaking your two shots. The danger zones are at the stop and or disappear. However, this method gives you more time to shoot As instead of winging 2 or 3 shots and hoping they are there. I just started using this method this year and I had mostly As on the swingers at nationals. I had a D that I picked up with an A. In the "trap" method, I would not have picked up those extra points.

It took me some practice with match ammo and maybe 100 rounds to get it down.

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In my Manny Bragg class he taught tracking the swinger. It works. So does trapping it, to an extent. I kinda do both, my first shot is usually during the dwell/pause at the end of the stroke and then coming out of the stroke. I see each shot.

First, before tackling the swinger or learning to shoot them you need to fix the "seem to get lost" problem. I'm guessing if you shoot, then have to wait for another pass, then you are dealing with a blink/flinch.

Each shot is separate and independent. There is nothing special required to shoot a swinger twice and SEE each shot. We are not talking super fast splits or anything of the sort. Probably .25 to .35's splits. BUT, first you need to SEE each shot at those speeds, which are splits almost any shooter can achieve.

Can you do that?

Additionally, you can make a swinger from PVC pipe, cheap and simple. Then you can practice like heck anytime you want. Doesn't have to be metal.

Edited by Chris iliff
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I had a long talk with Mike Seeklander about swingers.

AMBUSH it!

It is the simple technique that works. Not all swinger allow you to shoot when it has paused getting ready to reverse direction . I notice where the ground behind the pause area is usually torn up from the previous shooter.

Point your gun at this area.

Next determine if you can get two shots off during the pause cycle. You can estimate this by noticing your splits on static targets.

It may take a while to have the confidence to trust you hit the the target during the pause phase.

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If you can see them when they pause, trap them. If you can only get them while moving, track them.

I look through my sights and focus on the target.

Also, know when the swinger will appear. You don't want to be waiting for it or have it disappear as you transition to it. A lot times you can pick up multiple targets after you activate the swinger

Edited by Supermoto
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If you only 'practice' shooting swingers at matches you're going to be frustrated for a very long time. Once you decide you want to be able to shoot these and turn this weakness into a strength you're ready. You'll need to build or buy a swinger and then work on it using the suggestions here ... Personally, I like the track method far better than the ambush method but I know people who make it work ...

BTW, you need to forget that double tap crap right now! It's one of the worst habits you could ever get into. There is only seeing an appropriate sight picture for the target you are shooting (close, far, partial, mover, etc) and then pulling the trigger when that sight picture has been achieved. This happens slowly at first and then faster as your skills develop ...

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I used to suck at swingers, but I bought one and put some work in and now I feel like I understand them better.

First, the basics are really important. The better you can transition, shoot, and call shots, the better you will be at shooting swingers.

You also can't be timid about shooting swingers. If you overaim, the swinger will swing past your sights as you work to improve your sight picture, and that will result in mikes. Of course you can't be too aggressive and doubletap them either.

You need a plan. You hear from people all the time, "I'm going to hit the activator and then shoot that stuff and then come back to the swinger and hopefully it will have slowed down and then I can shoot it." That's not a plan, that's a prayer. Decide as part of your stage breakdown when you will shoot the swinger and stick to that plan. Over time you will get better at figuring out how to efficiently plan around the speed/appearances/angles of different swingers, but to learn those techniques you need to start eliminating variables now, and that means having a plan.

That's it, in a nutshell.

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I get asked about this all the time. Which is the best approach, Trapping/Ambushing or Tracking. I firmly believe that Tracking a moving target is a far better approach in getting two solid and callable hits on the target. It all comes down to the window of opportunity for breaking callable shots while shooting at a speed that is in control. When you Trap/Ambush a moving target you really only have time to break and call one clean shot then the second shot is usually a wild one where you "Hope" that you get a hit. Using the Trap/Ambush method you usually end up with one good hit and an unknown second hit. The second shot may be a good hit or a miss, you really don't know because the sights are in a stationary location while the target is moving in front of the sights.

Using the proper target tracking process your "window of opportunity" in breaking callable shots is vastly improved. The number one issue shooters have with using the "Tracking" method is they STOP tracking the target right before breaking the shot. In order to properly use the "Tracking" method you need to continue to track the moving target as you are breaking each shot. Your sights should travel the arc or path of the moving target smoothly to keep pace with the target as it moves. If you do this properly AND keep tracking as you break the shots your window of opportunity in shooting the moving target is vastly improved. You are also able to effectively call the shots on the target when using the proper tracking method. When you first start using this Tracking method it feels like you are taking FOREVER to shoot two called shots on a swinger and its easy to get impatient and stop tracking or simply sling lead towards the target. An extra tenth of a second or two that you invest in properly tracking the target while you engage it is WELL worth the time invested because you will be rewarded with solid hits. Verses slinging two fast shots at a swinger using the trap/ambush method and hoping that you don't have a miss.

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. When you Trap/Ambush a moving target you really only have time to break and call one clean shot then the second shot is usually a wild one where you "Hope" that you get a hit.

not if you shoot it when it stops, same with drop outs

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. When you Trap/Ambush a moving target you really only have time to break and call one clean shot then the second shot is usually a wild one where you "Hope" that you get a hit.

not if you shoot it when it stops, same with drop outs

Its all about consistency. Go to the range, setup a swinger and shoot it 50 different times using the "Trap/Ambush" method and keep track of your hit quality. Then do the same thing using the "Tracking" method. Tally up the results data and see which method produces the most consistent good results.

I know I have put in the time on the range to PROVE to myself which method works better and more consistent. You can take a short cut and have a solution spoon fed to you, which may or may not be the best solution. Or you can put in the range time to test it all out and know which solution is better than another. Choose the correct path wisely.

Edited by CHA-LEE
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. When you Trap/Ambush a moving target you really only have time to break and call one clean shot then the second shot is usually a wild one where you "Hope" that you get a hit.

not if you shoot it when it stops, same with drop outs

Its all about consistency. Go to the range, setup a swinger and shoot it 50 different times using the "Trap/Ambush" method and keep track of your hit quality. Then do the same thing using the "Tracking" method. Tally up the results data and see which method produces the most consistent good results.

I know I have put in the time on the range to PROVE to myself which method works better and more consistent. You can take a short cut and have a solution spoon fed to you, which may or may not be the best solution. Or you can put in the range time to test it all out and know which solution is better than another. Choose the correct path wisely.

I have and shooting when it stops works better for me on a swinger that you see stop. You are not the only one that goes to the range and owns a swinger...stop being such a pompous ass

Edited by Supermoto
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Because of my trap shooting background, tracking makes the most sense and the easiest to learn. When I was taught the ambush method first I struggled. Just like with trap, as long as you keep moving you're good. Stop the gun and you're gonna miss. I always cring a little when I hear a new shooter being taught the ambush method as I think they are going to be limited in the long run.

It might be interesting to poll M/GM shooters and see which method they use ...

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Because of my trap shooting background, tracking makes the most sense and the easiest to learn. When I was taught the ambush method first I struggled. Just like with trap, as long as you keep moving you're good. Stop the gun and you're gonna miss. I always cring a little when I hear a new shooter being taught the ambush method as I think they are going to be limited in the long run.

It might be interesting to poll M/GM shooters and see which method they use ...

My hunch is that if you poled the GMs - especially the super squad GMs - the answer would be that you have to be able to do both and use each technique depending on the circumstances of the stage.

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Attitude

Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.

No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.

Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.

No trolling. No alternate accounts.

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I started in trap/ambush mode then eventually evolved (w/o conscious effort) to trackning. Now I use any or a combination of the two that suits the situation. In hindsight, these are the skills I use to effectively shoot it:

Quick and precise index. My ability to aim my gun on anything I visually focus on. In any shooting position.

Knowing my Acceptable sight pic.

Trigger control. My ability to fire the shots w/o disturbing much of my aim. At speed.

Call the shots. My ability to see where my sights are while I shoot.

Recoil management. My ability to let the sights return to acceptable sight pic for the second shot.

Strong focus. My ability to not being rushed or disturbed by the mover itself.

If you have confidence to use these skills on demand and subconsciously, you are good to go. If not you can learn them separately w/ drills available in this forum.

Eta. Im no M/GM

Edited by BoyGlock
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I trap, always have. I did it at the Production Nats this year where the swingers were pretty close and fairly slow, and still had two mikes and a D on them, which, by my calculations, probably cost me a gun at the prize table.

Thinking about it, it makes sense to me to track a moving target if you can - so much more time on the target.

I've started with swinging tennis balls, and have actually built myself a one third to one half scale swinger that I'll use with my SIRT.

So far, I've noticed what was posted above - definitely got to see the target through the sights.

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My hunch is that if you poled the GMs - especially the super squad GMs - the answer would be that you have to be able to do both and use each technique depending on the circumstances of the stage.

At IPSC Nationals there were two swingers where tracking them was close to impossible. One where you had about 3' between two steel plates and a fast swinger @ 15 yards, and one were you were shooting from behind a wall with a 3" slit in it and two fast swingers at close to 20 yards.

I worked the stage with the two swingers at 20 yards and the slit to shoot through and we called so many misses on those two targets that every time we saw someone get 4 hits it was a surprise.

Most of the time I track swingers but on both of these I picked a spot on the berm and did a mini 3 shot bill drill when I saw the leading edge of the target. I got OK hits on all 3 of them. I was in the mid 30's for the match but I had a 7th and 10th place stage in standard on those two.

When I hear someone say you have to shoot one way, and only one way I think they are wrong. You have to have lots of tools in your box.

Most of the time I think tracking the swinger, looking at your sights, and calling the shots as the gun continues to move, is the best method. Sometimes it's not.

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I don't disagree with anything said but I suspect for the typical rank-and-file USPSA shooter who can't/doesn't practice shooting swingers except when they appear in a match I believe picking a single method to attempt to execute would yield better results.

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