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Is it illegal to export a VM Lifter?


stuart1336

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Are there any laws stopping a person sending me a versa max lifter from America to England?

I have been told C-Rums no longer ship to the UK. I emailed them Monday to ask if this is due to laws and I am waiting on a reply.

I have a Versa Max Synthetic. There are not many in the UK and even fewer used for practical. We have welded the lifter but have had feeding problems on and off since January and its beginning to get to me. We put a standard lifter from a spare gun back in and we get no problems.

We think its the length and shape of our modified lifter but we have nothing to compare it to in the UK. We keep modifying it. Last week in practice I fired 300 rounds and had one stoppage. On Sunday I went to a big competition and had at least 5 stoppages (I gave up counting). I placed 4th which was good but it could have been better.

The gun cost £1300 plus £260 to cut it back to 24" and £100 for a tube so I have £1660 invested (thats $2670). As you can see we pay a lot for guns over here and its annoying a relatively cheap part is messing it all up. I do not want to admit defeat with the gun as I really like it but it doesn't fill me with confidence.

My friend has a UK registered firearms dealer license and also an import license to bring in whole guns from America. If it requires a license we have the paperwork this end we just need someone who know how to do it in the States.

Thank you

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An export is an export regarldess if it comes from or sent to a business or a person. Even if its just a part for a friend that wasnt purchased. It is an export. Having said that, a lifter for a shotgun in this case would fall under the jurisidction of the Commerce Dept and would be labled EAR99. (for this part only) That means no license is required to send to England. This is true if, and only if, the person it gets sent to in England isnt on a "bad guy list". And if and only if the shipper isnt on a bad guy list. :)

Keep in mind if the lifter is attached to a trigger mechanism it may require a license from the Commerce Dept. But if it is JUST a lifter with no other parts attached, you should be good to go!

Most all shotgun parts are regulated by the Commerce Dept. But only a few shotguns parts require a license to a few places in the world.

Hope that helps!! Good luck!!

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By the way, the $100 dollar exemption from the DDTC (US State Dept) only applies to SOME rifle and pistol parts (as well as SOME "combat shotgun" parts) to SOME coutnries. And ONLY in some circumstances. Canada has other exemptions for these type of items and has other requirements associated with those exemptions. As does the UK and Austrailia.

Compliance is easy right up until the government screws it up and makes it hard. Dealing with all the regulations can sometimes be alot like trying to herd cats!

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Stuart, bend the nose of your welded up lifter down about 8 degrees. This will keep the welded lifter from over lifting the shells and jaming them into the uppe bolt locking lug cut.

Edited by kurtm
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Part of my job is ITAR compliance. FYI there is no way I would send the lifter without filing and being granted an export license or if I had a letter signed by the head of the DDTC of the Department of State. This is not an area to play around in. Their are real fines and jail time associated with non compliance.

Edited by Why1504
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2 Previous posts should be heeded.

Remington's new 3G Versa-Max will have a lifter that does not need to be welded up. Might be worth waiting a few months and try getting your dealer to order the lifter as a part from Remington.

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Part of my job is ITAR compliance. FYI there is no way I would send the lifter without filing and being granted an export license or if I had a letter signed by the head of the DDTC of the Department of State. This is not an area to play around in. Their are real fines and jail time associated with non compliance.

What about non gun accessory parts such as a scope base or mag well?

Edited by Toolguy
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Part of my job is ITAR compliance. FYI there is no way I would send the lifter without filing and being granted an export license or if I had a letter signed by the head of the DDTC of the Department of State. This is not an area to play around in. Their are real fines and jail time associated with non compliance.

What about non gun accessory parts such as a scope base or mag well?

According to the State Department, those are gun parts and can not be exported without proper license and registration of the manufacturer. Things like holsters, mag pouches, slings are not controlled items.

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Thank you for all the replies.

Not having any to copy when my friend welded the lifter he also extended the side as well so bending it is almost impossible. This week I cut a semi circle in the end like Dan Sierpina's. I had 1 stoppage in 175.

We have already smoothed the sharp edge on the barrel.

We may have to start again with a fresh lifter as this one has been altered that many times it getting confusing.

I have a friend taking guns to America in the near future and his shotgun might come back with a different lifter!

Getting spares for Remmington may be a little difficult for a few months. They have just changed importers and no one seems to know when guns or parts will be available.

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I will state one other fact. These rules are like jello. I have been through a voluntary disclosure on a violation and have had a shipment go missing (we did locate the missing shipment). Neither of these were fun.

I am surprised someone hasn't started a business to address this. Just a license would be $200 but you can ship multiple items under said license.

BTW, I won't be starting a business to do this!!! I do not enjoy dealing with ITAR regulated shipments overseas.

Edited by Why1504
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Category I of the ITAR controls firearms. However, it ONLY controls shotguns that are combat shotguns, along with pistols and rifles to caliber 50.

Category I (d) in part 121 of the ITAR specifically controls "Combat shotguns. This includes any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches." The ITAR does control ALL other firearms other than non combat shoguns. The Dept. of Commerce controls non combat shotguns. (shotguns with barrel lengths of more than 18")

The Export Administration Regulations, or EAR, through the Bureau of Industry and Security specificially controls non combat shotguns. The ECCN for non combat shotguns is 0A984.

0A984 Shotguns with barrel length 18 inches (45.72 cm) or over; receivers; barrels of 18 inches (45.72 cm) or longer but not longer than 24 inches (60.96 cm); complete trigger mechanisms; magazines and magazine extension tubes; complete breech mechanisms; buckshot shotgun shells; except equipment used exclusively to treat or tranquilize animals, and except arms designed solely for signal, flare, or saluting use.

Since a lifter is not one of the parts above in ECCN 0A984 (a part not listed above from a non combat shotgun) it then defautls to EAR99, which is no license required. This lifter WOULD be regulated by the ITAR if it was a part off of a combat shotgun and would fall into Category I (h).

I have a significant amount of experience training and education specifically involving the exports of firearms, Categories I, II, and III of the ITAR, and multiple ECCNs from the Commerce Control List, I would invite you to message me if you would like some additional guidance. Having said that, if you are still uncertain after reviewing these regulations yourself, I would suggest you contact the State Department directly. Another good resource for you would be BIS. I have attached the info below.

US DEPT OF STATE Response Team

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/response_team/index.html

Bureau of Industry and Security:

http://www.bis.doc.gov/

Ultimately if you export this item, you are solely responsible to ensure you are in compliance. Take a few minutes and look over these websites. Dont hesitate to contact me for more direction if needed. Good luck!

By the way, I would try what Kurt mentioned. Hard to go wrong taking advice from a guy with that much proven experience and success. Not to mention I know he has had a gun or two come across his bench.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 years later...
On 9/25/2013 at 1:59 PM, stuart1336 said:

Are there any laws stopping a person sending me a versa max lifter from America to England?

I have been told C-Rums no longer ship to the UK. I emailed them Monday to ask if this is due to laws and I am waiting on a reply.

I have a Versa Max Synthetic. There are not many in the UK and even fewer used for practical. We have welded the lifter but have had feeding problems on and off since January and its beginning to get to me. We put a standard lifter from a spare gun back in and we get no problems.

We think its the length and shape of our modified lifter but we have nothing to compare it to in the UK. We keep modifying it. Last week in practice I fired 300 rounds and had one stoppage. On Sunday I went to a big competition and had at least 5 stoppages (I gave up counting). I placed 4th which was good but it could have been better.

The gun cost £1300 plus £260 to cut it back to 24" and £100 for a tube so I have £1660 invested (thats $2670). As you can see we pay a lot for guns over here and its annoying a relatively cheap part is messing it all up. I do not want to admit defeat with the gun as I really like it but it doesn't fill me with confidence.

My friend has a UK registered firearms dealer license and also an import license to bring in whole guns from America. If it requires a license we have the paperwork this end we just need someone who know how to do it in the States.

Thank you

Old thread bump but here's some pertinent info:

 

Tactical Ordnance in Ontario Canada sells custom-manufactured VersaMax lifters (3.5") that also fit in Benelli SBE2 3.5" guns.  These have the full long profile and flat front that we like in modified lifters, but these are manufactured that way from the start.  I think they are about $90 CAD, and I think he could ship them to anywhere because Canada doesn't have ITAR or, to my knowledge, anything like it.

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