Running The stage during the walk through

[a matt]

I checked the search option, I dont see what I'm looking for. I want to know if shooters prefer to walk during walk through or are you a shooter that wants the whole feel before you shoot and runs one good time before the time expires. Thanks ahead.

Edited September 3, 2013 by a matt

[bagdad45]

I generally walk through during the walk through. We have up to 15 people in a squad at regular club match and hard to get a real run on the stage without someone stopping or stepping in your way.

[Sarge]

Me and 99% of the people I see at matches are strictly walkers with maybe a quick step or two at a transition point.

Kind of hard for a shooter to do a walk through at combat speed with all of us Sunday drivers on the stage.

[frankie]

i walk as much as I can, because you don't always get a chance to pre-run the stage without someone in your way

[CZinSC]

I try very hard to run the stage at match speed at the very least at transitions or on targets that I plan to shoot while moving. I almost got DQ'd last year at FL Open when I had to stop and go back for a target that during the "walk through" i literally walked and it was no problem. As soon as the timer went off and I was actually moving at match speed i was even with the target and had to hold up. Since then, I'll make sure I get at least one run through the stage.

It's tough to during the walk through, so I try and time it between other shooters. However once the shooting starts, when you're on deck, people need to get out of the way. I try to be polite, but when I'm on deck, it's my stage. Get out of the way.

[titandriver]

Full tilt boogie!

[frankie]

amen to being on deck... Show some respect and let the next person have the stage

[carlosa]

Yup

I doesn't hurt to sneak in a "run" through when ever possible..

[Glock26Toter]

Your walkthrough is your program. Program it EXACTLY as you will shoot it. That's what's going to happen anyways. Hold your hands the same as they sit on the gun. Move only your finger when firing each shot, and move through the stage at the same speed you are going to shoot it. This includes transitions and aiming time. It's very hard to get a decent walkthrough, but try to politely ask people to move when they are in your way (when on deck) and even with a pause or two try to get at least one full speed run in. It will help a LOT. If everyone did this, they would realize how important it is to let the on deck shooter have right of way because they would feel how important a full speed program is.

[steel1212]

I'll walk it during walk through as others have said there are usually to many people in the way to do much else. When I'm on deck though I try to go as I would shoot it.

[DrawandDuck]

Running just makes me tired.......

[motosapiens]

I've had the best results when I walk it once or twice, and then visualize it at match speed repeatedly. I find that if I keep walking it after I have my stage plan, that I get distracted by stuff I *don't* want to do.

[B45C22]

I walk it until I get a plan, then I try to run it if possible.

[Chris iliff]

Run it. If I can't do it all I split it up and try to run every section during walk through. On deck I try to run it again.

[Mk18]

Another plus one for the on deck shooter, get outta the way if you're not on deck

[motosapiens]

Just for grins, and to be a devil's advocate (or troll)...... how many super-squad competors do you see running the stage? I've only worked 2 major matches, but I don't remember *any* of them doing so. One of the reasons I started working on visualization rather than repeated walk/runthrough is that it seemed to me that's what the big boys were doing. I may be misremembering tho, so I'd love to hear from some GM-level shooters that have a different take on it.

p.s. I do sometimes see supersquad types making the first dynamic move from the start at full race speed. The stage I worked at area 1, all the top guys were being *extremely* careful to make sure they got turned around and facing downrange before the gun came out. We had an unfortunate number of dq's because the start involved turning, plus a lateral step or two to the first shooting position, so some folks were concentrating more on getting to the port than they were to who they pointed their gun at.

[Glock26Toter]

I would like to hear from a GM also. From my perspective it's like..."you have to learn to walk before you can run." Except, this is backwards. After you run the stage and know your abilities maybe you don't have the need for such repetitive and careful programing. I've noticed also, that GM's seem to have the best plan already without thinking about it and don't run the stage very many times before stepping up and shooting the damn stage like it stole money from them. But I remember when I was in D class also, and it was all I could do just to remember to keep my barrel pointed downrange and fire somewhere near the targets. Later that was easy and it was on to what you have to think about in C class... and so on.

I think there may be a time to take the walkthough as seriously as I do, and a time to not feel the need. Hopefully after I'm a Master I'll know what the heck I'm talking about, but for now this feels like it's helping me a lot.

This leads me to one last piece of advice.... GM's are like E.F. Hutton to me. (c'mon old timers!... remember?) When they speak... I listen.

[JJJ]

If hearing from a GM is what you want. I'm thinking maybe take a look at steel1212's post, unless I'm mistaken he's a GM.

[motosapiens]

I would like to hear from a GM also. From my perspective it's like..."you have to learn to walk before you can run." Except, this is backwards. After you run the stage and know your abilities maybe you don't have the need for such repetitive and careful programing. I've noticed also, that GM's seem to have the best plan already without thinking about it and don't run the stage very many times before stepping up and shooting the damn stage like it stole money from them. But I remember when I was in D class also, and it was all I could do just to remember to keep my barrel pointed downrange and fire somewhere near the targets. Later that was easy and it was on to what you have to think about in C class... and so on.

I think there may be a time to take the walkthough as seriously as I do, and a time to not feel the need. Hopefully after I'm a Master I'll know what the heck I'm talking about, but for now this feels like it's helping me a lot.

This leads me to one last piece of advice.... GM's are like E.F. Hutton to me. (c'mon old timers!... remember?) When they speak... I listen.

While I'm new to shooting, I'm not new to competitive sports. I just made made b, but my thinking is I already know how to run and point my gun at targets and not point my gun at the RO or other shooters. What needs rehearsing in my mind is the rhythm and look of the targets, and the spacing of reloads (i shoot production or l10) and the visual reminders for certain locations. If I find the right spot, and know I have 2 open targets, 1 dirty target (no shoot or hard cover) and 2 poppers), it doesn't really matter how i get there, it matters that I reach the spot, and go 'buh-bang, buh-bang, bang-bang, bang bang, leave and start reloading'. I get more out of rehearsing that sequence with my eyes closed than I get out of physically moving myself through the stage fast while other people are in the way.

I'll admit that my way of approaching stages has changed totally since taking a class with Ben Stoeger in march (about 6 months after getting serious enough about shooting to start dry -fire practice). Previously, I was moving too much and staying put too long and wasting time making the shots easier (but slower). Other folks in the class were trying to minimize movement, but ended up hunting and pecking slowly from a distance instead of going deep into a port and hosing the 4 available targets. Other people were constructing stage plans than had no room for error, requiring them to go 1 for 1 on multiple steel arrays or face repeated slide-lock reloads. Ben had us thing logically and experiment a little to see what methods really worked.

I have a background in racing dirtbikes and mtn bikes, where you normally don't get to see the course before race day (in fact it's a dq offense to pre-ride a marked course in most off-road races). But you can do the same sort of terrain in practice, and ride enough combinations of whoops, corners, rocks, etc... that you know EXACTLY how the bike will respond and how fast you can go. Shooting seems similar, except you get to look at stuff first. I've shot, then run 5 yards in one direction or another while reloading about 1000 times in practice. I know how it will be. I just need to visualize the spot where I want to stop, and the rhythm of the targets I'm going to see.

I may change my mind when I learn what I'm doing, lol.

[CHLChris]

I am very new to competitive shooting, but I've been at a pro level in classical trumpet playing. High-level musicians tend not to play their parts before a concert, during that time when the audience is listening but the concert hasn't begun. The skills are all internalized after years of practice, so the best players merely get into the right frame of mind right before the downbeat.

I am trying to approach competitive shooting in the same way. Develop the root skills, gain the experience of planning and shooting a stage, get into the right mindset during my on-deck time, and smoothly execute after the buzzer sounds.

Too bad I still suck...

[Nimitz]

I have to agree with Moto, the few times I've seen a SuperSquad shooter I've never seen them run a stage. I have seen them visualize the entire time while they were waiting to shoot however once the walk through period was over ... I learned this very early from Mike Seeklander, after you have developed your plan, go off to the side and visualize continually until it's your turn to shoot. There will be plenty of time to chit chat after your run. That's why I love level II and III matches since I don't know anyone on my squad I can just visualize continually and not feel bad about not socializing like at a local match where I know most everyone on my squad.

[Hello]

I walk thru... too lazy to run.

[JAFO]

I'll walk it during walk through as others have said there are usually to many people in the way to do much else. When I'm on deck though I try to go as I would shoot it.

This. I have also almost overrun positions because I just walked it and didn't take into account how fast I would want to move past an array vs how fast I could move and actually shoot the targets.

[glockified]

I like to practice short movement and maneuvering at full speed during the walk-through after I have been through it once slow. I do not usually run the whole thing, especially if there is a long sprint. Footwork while executing small movements ( 3 or 4 steps or less) seems more important to me than footwork during a long sprint. Also, I'm not young anymore so I don't want to get too winded beforehand.

Edited June 24, 2014 by glockified

[kevin c]

Took a course from Bob Vogel just last month. He visualizes at full speed. He will visualize faster than that even, to see if he has it grooved in.

Practically it's not possible to run the stage during the five minute walk through, and I'd say, without your game plan set, it might not really be worth while.

Running the stage when you are on deck during scoring of the prior run might be possible, but then you have to deal with peeps in the shooting area picking up mags and resetting props, and your buddy's fat sofa crusher blocking the view of the targets as he tapes them, or making the squad reset props again when you go through that door or push open that port.

And if you are like me or glockified, you might get gassed in the practice run on a long field course to the point where youi might pass out at the end of the real thing.

I guess Bob's suggestion is probably the most practical. That, or you do what some will do (if it is allowed) for a major - head out to the range the day before and walk/run the stages to your heart's content.

Edited June 24, 2014 by kevin c