red headed stranger Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Round dumping is not mentioned in this new rulebook draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbearden Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across. Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Oh yeah.... And still no knee pads..... Except for the soft type (which are pretty much useless); and only if worn underneath your pants!!?! That's one of the worst rules in IDPA, and I was really hoping they would get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Me too on the knee pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cira Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down? Not a dumb question at all... I posted it on another forum... no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down? Not a dumb question at all... I posted it on another forum... no answer. I'd like to know as well. I'm in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 (edited) Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun and SSP Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Think this was a typo??? Edited May 9, 2013 by GmanCdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box"..... That won't work either IMO It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point. R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 As far as applying the new classifier requirements to a classifier shot before the new requirements I would guess the answer is no but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawgbeav Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun.. Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun section. Think this was a typo??? I would consider grip tape to fall under "checkering, serrating and stippling". Legal in ESP and CDP. SSP can have modifications to the grip only if the panel is replaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box"..... That won't work either IMO It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point. R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. I think his point was that if have an 8' wall and you have to shoot from both ends a MD could deem the entire area behind the wall as a shooting postion, call the whole area P1. Then you could move behind it but still be at P1. Of course how that plays into R9....... R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover. reading that is means that cover is not the entire wall, it is only the exact position where you engaged the target from. You could have a 1000' wall but the only point of cover is the point from which you actually engage the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Wow... how many IDPA "gripes" could be solved if HQ would just set the "IPSC Sucks" ego aside for a minute and use &*%!!@$ fault lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box"..... That won't work either IMO It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point. R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. I think his point was that if have an 8' wall and you have to shoot from both ends a MD could deem the entire area behind the wall as a shooting postion, call the whole area P1. Then you could move behind it but still be at P1. Of course how that plays into R9....... R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover. reading that is means that cover is not the entire wall, it is only the exact position where you engaged the target from. You could have a 1000' wall but the only point of cover is the point from which you actually engage the target. If that was his point, that might work I guess. Although at that point the MD is just trying to get around a IDPA Rule. Why not just tell the competitors your not enforcing that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 This is why I'm seeing more and more non-affiliated IDPA clubs (like mine)... Because the technical rules are so impractical and antiquated. The clubs have to play by the spirit of the rules rather than by the letter of them. It gets to technical, and its not fun anymore, and is completely hypocritical to the founding principles. Not to mention it creates a negative atmosphere to new shooters. I'm so tired of hearing "you can't use that holster, you can't do this, you can't do that...." I know I wasn't the only one hoping for a real "updated" IDPA rulebook. And know I know I'm not the only the only one majorly dissappointed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatrix Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down? Sorry if this is a dumb question but with the new classifier times for SSP and ESP so close together why not just merge them into just one class and be done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down? Sorry if this is a dumb question but with the new classifier times for SSP and ESP so close together why not just merge them into just one class and be done with it? Maybe more to do with 'race' or 'enhanced' guns v 'stock'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If cover goes to infinity behind you, can you move backwards behind it? If you run dry while doing so, do you have to stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool Aid Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 (edited) With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound. Edited May 9, 2013 by Kool Aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound. Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time. I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun. I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool Aid Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 (edited) With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound. Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time. I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun. I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice. Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited. Edited May 9, 2013 by Kool Aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound. Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time. I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun. I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice. Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited. I don't really understand what you think is going to happen. You will still be shooting SSP guns against othe SSP guns.......in SSP. Why would you care what guns are legal or what the classifier times are in ESP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike21STI Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I'm disappointed in the new book, is it terrible? No but they contradicted themselves when they said no judgement calls but then leave the SO judgement of whether or not the shooter is in cover. Put an "advisory line" if you don't want to call it a fault line for fear of being like the other game. Ah well any trigger time is a good time, I'll still play this when I can but will most likely move to the other game as the primary one that I will play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound. Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time.I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun. I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice. Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited. I don't really understand what you think is going to happen. You will still be shooting SSP guns against othe SSP guns.......in SSP. Why would you care what guns are legal or what the classifier times are in ESP? I made SSP master with a 93 time. Couple years later made master in ESP with a 81. Know what changed? Just me same gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun and SSP Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Think this was a typo??? Did the rulebook draft specifically say "NO SKATEBOARD TAPE!" ....because if it didn't, then it is not forbidden, and by default is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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