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Draft rule book is posted


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If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.

Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box".....

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Oh yeah.... And still no knee pads..... Except for the soft type (which are pretty much useless); and only if worn underneath your pants!!?! That's one of the worst rules in IDPA, and I was really hoping they would get rid of it.

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Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down?

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Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down?

Not a dumb question at all... I posted it on another forum... no answer.

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Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down?

Not a dumb question at all... I posted it on another forum... no answer.

I'd like to know as well. I'm in that situation.

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Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun and SSP

Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Think this was a typo???

Edited by GmanCdp
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If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.

Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box".....

That won't work either IMO

It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point.

R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move

toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.

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Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun..

Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun section. Think this was a typo???

I would consider grip tape to fall under "checkering, serrating and stippling". Legal in ESP and CDP. SSP can have modifications to the grip only if the panel is replaceable.

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If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.

Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box".....

That won't work either IMO

It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point.

R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move

toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.

I think his point was that if have an 8' wall and you have to shoot from both ends a MD could deem the entire area behind the wall as a shooting postion, call the whole area P1. Then you could move behind it but still be at P1.

Of course how that plays into R9.......

R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of

cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover.

reading that is means that cover is not the entire wall, it is only the exact position where you engaged the target from. You could have a 1000' wall but the only point of cover is the point from which you actually engage the target.

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If you can't leave a shooting position until you are reloaded, I foresee stage designers creating a shooting position 20 feet across.

Great....now you have given the range Nazi's a reason to regulate the size of a shooting position.....an invisible "tactical box".....

That won't work either IMO

It "says may not advance" that's pretty clear. Then it says "(move toward the next shooting position)". So even if there is a "tactical box" you can't move toward the next position. I guess you could reload on the move in your invisible box as long as your moving away from the next position but what's the point.

R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move

toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.

I think his point was that if have an 8' wall and you have to shoot from both ends a MD could deem the entire area behind the wall as a shooting postion, call the whole area P1. Then you could move behind it but still be at P1.

Of course how that plays into R9.......

R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of

cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover.

reading that is means that cover is not the entire wall, it is only the exact position where you engaged the target from. You could have a 1000' wall but the only point of cover is the point from which you actually engage the target.

If that was his point, that might work I guess. Although at that point the MD is just trying to get around a IDPA Rule. Why not just tell the competitors your not enforcing that rule.

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This is why I'm seeing more and more non-affiliated IDPA clubs (like mine)... Because the technical rules are so impractical and antiquated. The clubs have to play by the spirit of the rules rather than by the letter of them. It gets to technical, and its not fun anymore, and is completely hypocritical to the founding principles. Not to mention it creates a negative atmosphere to new shooters. I'm so tired of hearing "you can't use that holster, you can't do this, you can't do that...." I know I wasn't the only one hoping for a real "updated" IDPA rulebook. And know I know I'm not the only the only one majorly dissappointed...

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Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but with the new classifier times for SSP and ESP so close together why not just merge them into just one class and be done with it?

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Sorry if this is s dumb question but with the new classifier times, will they be applied retroactively reclassifying people into these new time groupings? If someone made EX in the only time but would be SS in the new times, do they get bumped down?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but with the new classifier times for SSP and ESP so close together why not just merge them into just one class and be done with it?

Maybe more to do with 'race' or 'enhanced' guns v 'stock'?

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With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound.

Edited by Kool Aid
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With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound.

Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time.

I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun.

I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice.

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With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound.

Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time.

I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun.

I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice.

Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited.

Edited by Kool Aid
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With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound.

Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time.

I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun.

I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice.

Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited.

I don't really understand what you think is going to happen.

You will still be shooting SSP guns against othe SSP guns.......in SSP. Why would you care what guns are legal or what the classifier times are in ESP?

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I'm disappointed in the new book, is it terrible? No but they contradicted themselves when they said no judgement calls but then leave the SO judgement of whether or not the shooter is in cover. Put an "advisory line" if you don't want to call it a fault line for fear of being like the other game. Ah well any trigger time is a good time, I'll still play this when I can but will most likely move to the other game as the primary one that I will play

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With SSP & ESP Classifier scores so close, there's not much incentive to shoot a stock-ish gun anymore. SSP will shrink and ESP will grow as shooters figure out that the easiest way to a higher classification is via an equipment race. Currenly classified shooters who get grandfathered in will be in for a rude awakening when the next crop of fully vetted SSP shooters come through the ranks. Unintended consequences abound.

Do you really think that? The whole reason classifier times were adjusted is because people are apparently shooting very similar times with stock guns vs heavily modified ones, which makes it seem like the whole equipment race thing is a waste of time.

I certainly don't feel like ESP shooters have any advantage over my SSP gun.

I think the easiest way to a higher classification will continue to be practice.

Not only do I think it, I'm planning for it. My SSP gun is great, but nowhere near the potential of a lot of the ESP-legal guns I'm running it against in USPSA Limited.

I don't really understand what you think is going to happen.

You will still be shooting SSP guns against othe SSP guns.......in SSP. Why would you care what guns are legal or what the classifier times are in ESP?

I made SSP master with a 93 time. Couple years later made master in ESP with a 81. Know what changed? Just me same gun.

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Looks like grip tape/skateboard tape is off the books for all divisions,except it is listed for Bug gun and SSP

Went to the rules in search,and typed in "tape" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Typed in "skateboard" and it only appears in the Bug gun and SSP section. Think this was a typo???

Did the rulebook draft specifically say "NO SKATEBOARD TAPE!" ....because if it didn't, then it is not forbidden, and by default is allowed.

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