Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?

[Huch]

33 minutes ago, koreytm said:

So is that why you chose a +6 over a +5? Or was it a different reason?

Go with a +6. The only reason to go with a shorter tube is if you didn't want it sticking way out past the barrel. The +6 doesn't even stick out one shell length, especially with an extended choke, and the advantage of being able to quickly load two at the start far outweighs any minor inconvenience that might cause. I can load 2 faster than I can one (unless it's from a match saver) so that's a no-brainer for me.  The other thing is that if you have a +6 tube you can shoot matches that allow 8+1 and take full advantage of those that allow 10+1. If you have a +5 tube you can shoot 8+1 matches but will only be able to load 9+1 in the matches that allow 10+1.

[Cuz]

Ok, so it seems the +6 is the preferred tube size. Now, if I'm considering the M3000 instead of the M3K, should I get the 26" barrel or the 24"? It would seem the 26" barrel with +6 tube would be about the exact same length.
When the tube extends past the barrel, why doesn't it get shot?


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[Huch]

1 minute ago, Cuz said:

Ok, so it seems the +6 is the preferred tube size. Now, if I'm considering the M3000 instead of the M3K, should I get the 26" barrel or the 24"? It would seem the 26" barrel with +6 tube would be about the exact same length.
When the tube extends past the barrel, why doesn't it get shot?


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I would still go with a 24, that's plenty of barrel for 3Gun and 26" is a bit of overkill in my opinion. You're adding extra weight and awkwardness to the end of your gun without any real benefit since you're not trying to get max velocity to kill animals far away. 

The mag tube doesn't get shot because the shotgun pellets don't spread out instantaneously upon exiting the barrel. The pattern gradually expands as it flies through the air (that why a shogun will leave a ragged hole at 3 feet but a bunch of little holes at 30 feet) and doesn't get wide enough to hit the mag tube until the pellets are well past it. If you look up Open division shotguns, a lot of them will have mag tubes that stick out a foot beyond the barrel. The tube gets a little carbon scoring on it after a while, but it doesn't have any effect on its function.

[koreytm]

1 hour ago, Huch said:

I would still go with a 24, that's plenty of barrel for 3Gun and 26" is a bit of overkill in my opinion. You're adding extra weight and awkwardness to the end of your gun without any real benefit since you're not trying to get max velocity to kill animals far away. 

The mag tube doesn't get shot because the shotgun pellets don't spread out instantaneously upon exiting the barrel. The pattern gradually expands as it flies through the air (that why a shogun will leave a ragged hole at 3 feet but a bunch of little holes at 30 feet) and doesn't get wide enough to hit the mag tube until the pellets are well past it. If you look up Open division shotguns, a lot of them will have mag tubes that stick out a foot beyond the barrel. The tube gets a little carbon scoring on it after a while, but it doesn't have any effect on its function.

Hutch, I appreciate all your input over the last few posts.  I'm pretty much on the same page as you with the +6 vs the +5, and I get what you're saying about reloading.  Sounds like if you're going to load doubles or quads you want to be counting your rounds so you know you can fit multiples of 2 or 4 when reloading.  The only thing I would argue (not that I'm arguing, just playing devils advocate) is that you need a +6 to get you that 10+1 (11 total) for matches that allow.  With the Stoegers (and Benellies and Franchies) you can ghost load a 9 round mag for 9+1+1 to get the same 11 rounds as a 10+1.  I still think the biggest sell for me on the +6 is that I can drop 2 in at the start if I need to.  After that it kind of seems like a wash between a 9 round or 10 round total since your tube may not always be empty when reloading, and if it is you may not always be able to stuff 5 doubles in there before needing to shoot again.

For anybody curious about really long tubes, I just stumbled across this last night:

 

[Huch]

2 hours ago, koreytm said:

Hutch, I appreciate all your input over the last few posts.  I'm pretty much on the same page as you with the +6 vs the +5, and I get what you're saying about reloading.  Sounds like if you're going to load doubles or quads you want to be counting your rounds so you know you can fit multiples of 2 or 4 when reloading.  The only thing I would argue (not that I'm arguing, just playing devils advocate) is that you need a +6 to get you that 10+1 (11 total) for matches that allow.  With the Stoegers (and Benellies and Franchies) you can ghost load a 9 round mag for 9+1+1 to get the same 11 rounds as a 10+1.  I still think the biggest sell for me on the +6 is that I can drop 2 in at the start if I need to.  After that it kind of seems like a wash between a 9 round or 10 round total since your tube may not always be empty when reloading, and if it is you may not always be able to stuff 5 doubles in there before needing to shoot again.

For anybody curious about really long tubes, I just stumbled across this last night:

 

That's insane; I wonder where he found a magazine spring that long!

You're definitely correct that you can ghost load the M3K with a +5 tube and get 10+1 total in the gun to start, so in hindsight the last part of my post doesn't seem to be quite as important. You're also right that the biggest benefit of the +6 is the ability to top off with two shells at the start, not the starting capacity. I can count on one hand the number of times I have started a stage with 10+1 in my gun. However there have been countless times where I have loaded 2 at the buzzer to run a stage more efficiently. 

 

Btw, here are the videos I was talking about of people hitting the shell release and racking the slide in one fast motion:

 

 

[1time]

Those new federal cartridges are far inferior to the old ones.  I would try new ammo first.  Very good chance you are out of battery because of misshapen ammo and perhaps you aren't letting the bolt slam home freely.

Same here. I had 3000 of them through my A5 and it was flawless. I stocked up at the beginning of this year and they gave me nothing but problems. I switched to win AA. They cost more but it's a small price to avoid the frustration of a gun crapping the bed during a match.

[womboman]

Hey guys, kind of a goofy question for you all.

recently stripped my m3000 down for the first time to clean it(~300-350 shots). when i put the bolt back together, it felt like the recoil spring(inside the bolt carrier) was moving around a lot more freely than i remember. i could hear it sliding around inside the bolt carrier if i shook it around. This is normal right? i can't imagine i put it together wrong as it's not exactly a complicated set-up. figured it's just something i haven't noticed until now. just want to confirm this is normal, thanks in advance.

Edited September 8, 2016 by womboman

[koreytm]

13 hours ago, Huch said:

That's insane; I wonder where he found a magazine spring that long!

You're definitely correct that you can ghost load the M3K with a +5 tube and get 10+1 total in the gun to start, so in hindsight the last part of my post doesn't seem to be quite as important. You're also right that the biggest benefit of the +6 is the ability to top off with two shells at the start, not the starting capacity. I can count on one hand the number of times I have started a stage with 10+1 in my gun. However there have been countless times where I have loaded 2 at the buzzer to run a stage more efficiently. 

 

Btw, here are the videos I was talking about of people hitting the shell release and racking the slide in one fast motion:

 

Yeah, I really don't think being able to start with 10 is going to be a factor very often.  There aren't many places within an hour from me that have regular competitions.  Seems like there is one place about an hour away that might have something once a month.  Of the places that I've found online that are somewhat close to me, none of them really have very good websites/online information about their competitions.  I checked out both WI and MN 3gun regulations and those both specify 8+1 to start, but as far as any other non-sanctioned matches that any clubs hold there is very little info.  Like I said, I'm pretty much leaning towards the +6.  Plus in another one of Jesse T's videos he was doing a review of the Stoeger and it had an overly long choke in it...He said it was from his M2, which is the Benelli Crio I think, but it fit the Stoeger.  So I'm thinking (if they do actually fit) a Crio extended choke might come out almost flush with the +6.

 

An that video is pretty slick.  I wish you could see the other side!

Edited September 8, 2016 by koreytm

[Cuz]

I talked to Tom at MOA Precision today. He was very helpful. He suggested I go with a longer tube than a +6 extension, but I will stick with the +6 because I want minimal extension beyond the barrel. He recommended against the +5. After talking to him I ordered a M3K to send him to work on. Basically I paid an extra $100 just because the M3K has a relocated serial # and Tom can modify the port equally on both sides. I am a lefty and will load with strong hand so being able to hog out that side of the port will make a difference. I'm glad I talked to him before placing an order.


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[Huch]

33 minutes ago, Cuz said:

I talked to Tom at MOA Precision today. He was very helpful. He suggested I go with a longer tube than a +6 extension, but I will stick with the +6 because I want minimal extension beyond the barrel. He recommended against the +5. After talking to him I ordered a M3K to send him to work on. Basically I paid an extra $100 just because the M3K has a relocated serial # and Tom can modify the port equally on both sides. I am a lefty and will load with strong hand so being able to hog out that side of the port will make a difference. I'm glad I talked to him before placing an order.


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The opened the port on my M3K and did a great job. Also had them install the XS rear sight for slugs which I would highly recommend if you've got the gun there anyway.

[Cuz]

I was going back and forth on the sights, but you are right that I may as well get it done while he has the gun.


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[Huch]

54 minutes ago, Cuz said:

I was going back and forth on the sights, but you are right that I may as well get it done while he has the gun.


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For sure. I don't even notice it when I'm shooting close targets or clays, but when I line up a long slug shot it's a big help. You might also want to get the Hi-viz front sight since the stock one is pretty large for long shots: https://www.amazon.com/HIVIZ-Competition-Fiber-Optic-Sight/dp/B0002INN4A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473367895&sr=8-1&keywords=hi-viz+sights

[Cuz]

I think he said his "sight package" included replacing the front sight with a Hi-viz.

 

[Dan Sierpina]

Larry,

   The X-S rear is not noticeable when shooting stationary or aerial targets, but, if you need it for slugs, it's worth the price.

Tom has been working on the Stoeger shotguns for some time and has the modifications down pat.

 

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, Dan Sierpina said:

Larry,

   The X-S rear is not noticeable when shooting stationary or aerial targets, but, if you need it for slugs, it's worth the price.

Tom has been working on the Stoeger shotguns for some time and has the modifications down pat.

 

Thanks Dan.

It was a tough decision between the Stoeger or Benelli.  Ultimately I couldn't bring myself to spend the money on a Benelli that I'll probably shoot 10 times over the next 15+ years.  As long as the Stoeger runs reliably the few times I take it out to play I'll be happy.  If not, then I'll own both a Stoeger and a Benelli...

[koreytm]

5 hours ago, Cuz said:

I talked to Tom at MOA Precision today. He was very helpful. He suggested I go with a longer tube than a +6 extension, but I will stick with the +6 because I want minimal extension beyond the barrel. He recommended against the +5. After talking to him I ordered a M3K to send him to work on. Basically I paid an extra $100 just because the M3K has a relocated serial # and Tom can modify the port equally on both sides. I am a lefty and will load with strong hand so being able to hog out that side of the port will make a difference. I'm glad I talked to him before placing an order.


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What were Tom's thoughts/reasons for going longer?  I'm sure it's the obvious "more is better", but just curious. I called there a couple times last week and nobody answered, left a message and didn't get a call back so that's when I came on here and started asking around. 

And the M3K makes perfect sense for you being a lefty. Did you see in a previous post where Tom had converted somebody's gun to a left sided charging bolt?

[Cuz]

You are correct, it was a matter of more is better. I've seen lots of left handed conversions, but I don't use them. I figure I live in a right handed world so I just learned to deal with it. I won't even put a lefty safety on the gun.


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[Cuz]

I'm really glad the M3Ks were plentiful on gunbroker so I can get one to him quickly.


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[koreytm]

19 minutes ago, Cuz said:

You are correct, it was a matter of more is better. I've seen lots of left handed conversions, but I don't use them. I figure I live in a right handed world so I just learned to deal with it. I won't even put a lefty safety on the gun.


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Cool.  I just ordered the +6, follower, and figured I'd try the double headed safety since it's supposed to be a little easier to push in and out.

[12Bravo]

On 9/8/2016 at 10:48 AM, womboman said:

Hey guys, kind of a goofy question for you all.

recently stripped my m3000 down for the first time to clean it(~300-350 shots). when i put the bolt back together, it felt like the recoil spring(inside the bolt carrier) was moving around a lot more freely than i remember. i could hear it sliding around inside the bolt carrier if i shook it around. This is normal right? i can't imagine i put it together wrong as it's not exactly a complicated set-up. figured it's just something i haven't noticed until now. just want to confirm this is normal, thanks in advance.

Rattle is normal, I've bee told to use a little grease on it if it bothers you. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by 12Bravo

[koreytm]

 

On 9/8/2016 at 10:48 AM, womboman said:

Hey guys, kind of a goofy question for you all.

recently stripped my m3000 down for the first time to clean it(~300-350 shots). when i put the bolt back together, it felt like the recoil spring(inside the bolt carrier) was moving around a lot more freely than i remember. i could hear it sliding around inside the bolt carrier if i shook it around. This is normal right? i can't imagine i put it together wrong as it's not exactly a complicated set-up. figured it's just something i haven't noticed until now. just want to confirm this is normal, thanks in advance.

On 9/10/2016 at 6:47 AM, 12Bravo said:

Rattle is normal, I've bee told to use a little grease on it if it bothers you. 

I'm glad you posted this answer...I took my charging handle out yesterday before ever even shooting it and noticed the spring rattling after I put it back together.  I would've been pretty worried had I not seen this.

I got the mag extension on and the MOA safety installed yesterday, took it out today and ran about 125 random rounds that I had laying around through it.  I put about 60 high power 3" magnums, 60ish mid power 2 3/4" duck/pheasant loads, and then 6 left over ultra-light 2 3/4 1145fps 1 1/8oz AA's at the end.  It only gave me one hiccup and it was a FTE one of the 3" super mag 2oz turkey loads.  It also had 3 FTEs for my buddy during the same 11 round "run" that he shot with it....but I shot the other 50ish of those same rounds (10 at a time) without a single issue.  I didn't have enough time to run any of my Federal 1145fps light trap rounds through it, but it handled those last 6 light AA's that I had laying around flawlessly.

[Cuz]

Koreytm,

Keep me posted on how that thing runs.  I'm trying to figure out what ammo I'm supposed to use to "break it in".  The manual just says to shoot a few boxes of full power ammo, but what the heck is that?  Or more accurately, what is the cheapest ammo I can buy that meets the spec of full power ammo?  I am really, really hoping that once broken in, my Stoeger runs the Federal 1 1/8 oz 3 dram 7.5 shot target loads because I went and bought a "bunch" of them...

 

[12Bravo]

I shot Estate/Fiocchi 3 dram 1 1/8 all year long at the local matches, and then AA  2 3/4 dram at the majors I shot in with no issues. I don't believe I "broke it in" with anything special.

[womboman]

13 hours ago, Cuz said:

Koreytm,

Keep me posted on how that thing runs.  I'm trying to figure out what ammo I'm supposed to use to "break it in".  The manual just says to shoot a few boxes of full power ammo, but what the heck is that?  Or more accurately, what is the cheapest ammo I can buy that meets the spec of full power ammo?  I am really, really hoping that once broken in, my Stoeger runs the Federal 1 1/8 oz 3 dram 7.5 shot target loads because I went and bought a "bunch" of them...

 

I only shot about 25 rounds of buckshot through my m3000 when i first got it to "break it in". From there i just polished the mag tube and dropped in a benelli spring and extractor. After that i've shot nothing but target loads without issue. probably at about ~300 rounds of that same federal you have, ~50 Estate shells that i can't remember the exact specs on, and another 25-50 of Remington Gun Club shells that were 1 1/8 and 3DRAM. None of them gave me any issues. I think as long as you stay close to the recommended 1 1/8oz and 3DRAM, then the gun will run it very reliably. I think i'm going to try some lighter stuff to see how it works now.

[Cuz]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback guys.  I'm liking what I'm reading.  It's going to be a loooooooonnng painful wait to get my shotgun, especially since it hasn't even arrived at MOA yet...  That won't happen until Friday.