bpipe95 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Let's see the video ... And stress analysis... With a lightened bolt and without .. Thanks ... the factory is about as likely to share R&D information as the aftermarket modder is to go to the expense and effort to do that type of actual testing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClintDismore Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Why does it really matter if the only affect is with heavy loads and a lightened bolt carrier? As sport shooters we run light loads 95% of the time anyways. I know some may take their versa Max hunting and use heavier loads but you could solve that issue by buying a stock bolt carrier and swapping out. My lightened carrier gun has run 100% since I got it where my stock bolt carrier did not in my other gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I am not factory so I would fit into the aftermarket as well. I have not seen the Remington data, but just like any system, F=ma. I have done the analysis and it is consistent with what Remington has said. I can loan you a materials handbook that has the material toughness and impact strength in it so you can run an analysis of how your mods affect the system. Curious if you also recommend a lightweight carrier in a 16" carbine with pistol length gas with a standard gas port? The word scratch is just slang for $, nothing more. Lots of people have gunsmiths do mods for the aesthetic with no benefit in performance at all. Nothing wrong with that, provided they know what they are getting. Some mods to factory are good, some nuetral and some bad. If the Smith does not know how their mods will affect the materials, should they really be offering them? It is more about the education of the consumer who may not understand firearms design and the potential impact of gunsmith mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) First off lets understand that when Remington designed the Versa-max, they built it for the waterfowl world. That's where they make their money. For every 3-gunner that buys one to shoot 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz at 1200fps there's probably 250 duck and goose hunters buying them to shoot up to 3 1/2" 1 1/2oz at 1500fps. With that in mind, I just lightened my bolt (the same way Crucible does, machining the body back tell it's flush with firing pin hole). I don't have my numbers in front of me, but total reciprocating bolt mass (minus bolt head and charging handle) before lightening was I think 13.2 oz. After it was 12.6 (5% roughly). Now from someone that shoots atleast a case of 3 1/2" usually closer to 2, a year at geese through my shotgun. I can guarantee 3 1/2" are harder on a bolt/gun at 13.2 oz than 2 3/4" are at 12.6 oz. And yes I know how the Versa-max port system was designed. Doesn't matter! My lightened bolt throws my 2 3/4" 2-4'. My goose gun throws them 6-10' (and that's a heavier high brass 3 1/2" hull). And that's completely due to bolt velocity, and how fast that hull is moving when it hits the ejector. Another way to put this, is if Remington hypothetically built a 2 3/4" Versa-Max. I'd guarantee they wouldn't put a 13.2 oz bolt in it. Edited March 25, 2014 by jrbet83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopgun Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 My Versa has the stock bolt with about 2 k through it. In an effort to see just how low a velocity load it will shoot reliably, I just ran 50 15.0 gr PB 1 1/16 oz loads. These chronoed at 728 fps and and ejected cases 4 to 5 feet. I still haven't found that limit. Can't see the benefit of lightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgr2 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 " Can't see the benefit of lightening" Style Points!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopgun Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 " Can't see the benefit of lightening" Style Points!! Whatever floats your boat. I'd rather buy more boolits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 If you do a search the elder Hill says he does it to be able to shoot fast. I took it to mean that the gun will choke if you shoot it fast enough. The stock Benelli will malf if you pull the trigger fast enough. There was an article years ago in Front Sight that ranked/tested how fast shotguns could go before they malfed. Probably P Kelly wrote it. When you were doing your testing were you shooting slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopgun Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 If you do a search the elder Hill says he does it to be able to shoot fast. I took it to mean that the gun will choke if you shoot it fast enough. The stock Benelli will malf if you pull the trigger fast enough. There was an article years ago in Front Sight that ranked/tested how fast shotguns could go before they malfed. Probably P Kelly wrote it. When you were doing your testing were you shooting slow? As fast as I could . And , no, I'm not Jerry M. i will have to do it on a timer to see what splits I got. Some may be ,but I'm not faster than this gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Under match conditions, even the guys who shoot faster than Mr. Hill do not outrun the bolt bounce on a Benelli and the VM cycles a bit faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgr2 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 You will never catch me outrunning any shotgun, rifle or pistol while I'm awake!! And I seriously doubt that the majority of us 3 gunners will either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Can you guys out run an ar15 or a 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 A copy of PK's article: http://forums.benelliusa.com/archive/index.php/t-8090.html .14 for a 1100 .13 for a Benelli M1 S90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopgun Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 If you do a search the elder Hill says he does it to be able to shoot fast. I took it to mean that the gun will choke if you shoot it fast enough. The stock Benelli will malf if you pull the trigger fast enough. There was an article years ago in Front Sight that ranked/tested how fast shotguns could go before they malfed. Probably P Kelly wrote it. When you were doing your testing were you shooting slow? As fast as I could . And , no, I'm not Jerry M. i will have to do it on a timer to see what splits I got. Some may be ,but I'm not faster than this gun. I did a couple of 8 shot runs today and my splits averaged .18. Thats as fast as I can get this trigger finger to go. Need more practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBOT5000 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It does nothing on the versa max, mark (an engineer) from carbon arms runs 2.5 dram shells out of his gun which is as light as you would ever run with no milling. In the case of a shotgun just like an ar platform I would want more mass ramming that round into the chamber. If you want it go for it, it looked cool on my versa max but don't expect any performance gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbyjack Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Couldn't you just case harden the hammer so it don't wear? Do a .010"-.015" case harden. Or make a hammer out of A2 or s7 tool steel and have it thru hardened at a rc 60-62. Just wondering how hard the stock hammer is to peen or the material. A lot say they wear. Could be a easy fix with some heat treat. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhill Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 We have run 1 5/8 dram out of the VM with no problems at all. Guns with factory bolts or lightened bolts ran them just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Colbyjack the Hammer is case hardened. Trust me Remington has balanced its properties as best they can. Tools steels are great for the proper applications but a through-hardened hammer is not one of them. If one was to be made to the specs you mention, it would most likely crack and completely fail in short order; maybe in as little as 1 to 2 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willz Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Does anyone know what the difference is between the Versa Max Synth bolt and the Tactical bolt? Numrich lists Bolt Assembly, Tactical for $174.35 and the Bolt Assembly for $223.60. I know all the internals of the Synth model are TriNyte coated which is electroless nickle. Edited June 5, 2014 by Willz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The field models have a recessed oval / roun-end slot that accepts the anti-rotation feature on the standard bolt handle. The Tactical and Competition bolt carriers only have a hole. So as you can guess, the Tactical bolt handle will work with both, the standard field bolt handle will only work with the field model bolts (unless you modify one of the parts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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