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Beretta A400 Excel


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Neat but the 391 will do just as well breaking clays usually for significantly less. I personally haven't found the kick off necessary in anything under 3" mags. I shoot a 391 w/o kickoff and an Xtrema with kickoff and the a400 I shot didn't seem markedly softer compared to my 391.

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I've shot it. I liked it alot and the KO is nice as I've become used to 24gr shells. Even the 1 1/8 loads punish me these days.

If you have a 391 that fits I would not suggested upgrading but I would not steer anyone away from the A400

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Thanks for the replies. I don't have a 391, just saw 2 for sale under $900 so I figured it was a good deal, but at the same time I saw these new and they caught my eye. I wish some place had the Remmy 1100 Comp, Benelli SS and this for a side by side, can't decide on any of them. The good news is the Beretta is available right now.

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Thanks for the replies. I don't have a 391, just saw 2 for sale under $900 so I figured it was a good deal, but at the same time I saw these new and they caught my eye. I wish some place had the Remmy 1100 Comp, Benelli SS and this for a side by side, can't decide on any of them. The good news is the Beretta is available right now.

For heavy-duty clays use, the Beretta is the only choice of the three you mention. The Remington won't go for much more than 100 shells without the need for a cleaning and the Benelli is too light and will kick the snot out of you and you can't use lighter shells as it won't cycle. And because of the Benelli's short-recoil mechanism, you're giving up the principal benefit of a semi-auto: attenuated recoil.

I've shot 1,500 shells in one day through a 391 without cleaning with only 2 malfunctions which I will attribute to the cheap shells I was using (double feeds out of the mag and I think the brass was undersized). The 391 isn't perfect; I've broken a bolt, connecting rods, two pistons, bolt handles, etc. but it is infinitely more reliable than an 1100. The Benelli is probably more robust but, again, it's too light.

One of my shooting buddies uses an 1100 Comp and he has to take it apart once a round and wipe everything off with BreakFree to keep it running smoothly. Another shooting friend has an 1100 Comp that will not shoot shells lighter than 1-1/8 oz @ 1200 FPS. A third friend had an 1100 with crookedly threaded chokes and had to get a replacement barrel from Remington (provided under warranty but, still, crooked chokes?).

If you go to any major sporting clays shoot, you will find that the 391 is probably the single most popular gun, followed by a mix of Browning and Beretta O/Us, then followed by the high dollar Krieghoffs, Perazzis, Kolars, Blasers, etc.. There's a reason beyond cost for the 391's popularity; it's reliable, it balances well, and recoils less. It's just an easy gun to shoot.

Beware, though, there are two versions of the 391, field and target. The target model is heavier so if you're shooting clays, be sure to get a target model.

As for your original question, I prefer the 391 to the 400. To me, the 400 feels very big and clunky. But I've probably shot 50,000 shells through various versions of the 391 and I'm probably biased by familiarity.

Edited by leftnose
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@leftnose- thanks for all your info, I appreciate it. You have narrowed it down for me. One more question though about the Benelli, compare the SS to the Sport2- does the Sport2 weigh more and handle better? The dealer also mentioned the Legacy and Cordoba, but it they use the same mechanism, balance and weight seem to be the only variants. Many have mentioned the Benelli's don't handle light loads- common with all of them?

Thanks,

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Apologies in advance for this long winded answer.

To a certain extent, I feel I have to qualify myself here as I am a relatively new member and I don't have many posts.

I am in NSCA AA class and am pretty close to earning Master class (the highest class). I've won punches at both national and international competitions, I travel to large SC shoots, and I have been in shoot-offs against top pros (and lost). On a (rare) good, day I can compete on a national level and when I shot skeet seriously, I maintained a 12ga average pretty close to 24.5. I tell you all of this not to impress you with my ability to shoot but, rather, to demonstrate that I have been around the block a few times. Next week the IL State shoot is at my home club, next month I'm going to Minnesota for the US Open (the second biggest NSCA shoot of the year) where 900-1,000 shooters should participate in the main event and in August the World FITASC is at my home club (the equivalent to the World IPSC but held annually) and I'll be shooting in that along with ~1,100 other shooters from 20+ countries. This I only mention to show that my home club, 17 miles from my house where I shoot on a weekly basis, is a pretty serious place that is known for its quality targets. I get 15 days vacation and it's a rare year that I don't spend 10-12 of those shooting in a tournament somewhere (lucky for me and my shooting, I'm not married :o )

So here's my advice: if you really want to get serious about clays, forget the Benelli. I didn't mention this previously but if you go to a big shoot, you'll see at least 100 semi-auto Berettas (303/390/391) to any Benelli. At home home club with ~950 members, I can only think of 2-3 serious shooters who use a Benelli and they're never very clear on why they made that choice. You do see hunters and more casual shooters using them but not the guys who really shoot for score. To a certain extent, if you were to show up at a serious competition with a Benelli, it would be like going to a major USPSA shoot with a Glock 36. It'll get the job done but it's not ideal.

I don't care what Benelli would like you to believe with their marketing, their guns are too light for targets, they handle to quickly, and just won't shoot light 1 oz. shells that most people prefer, at least, for practice. I'm sure you've heard the saying "slow is smooth and smooth is fast?" Benellis are too light to move slowly/smoothly and that really makes them harder to shoot.

All Benellis use a short-recoil system to cycle. This system won't cycle light shells and doesn't attenuate recoil like the gas system of a 391 or 1100. Also, for my personal tastes, I don't like the feel of Benelli grips or forends, I don't like the hump in the rib, and I especially hate the fiber optic sights they insist on installing at the factory. There really isn't any mechanical difference between any of the traditional Benells, except the Vinci which still has the same short-recoil system anyway. The difference between the models is the materials and cosmetics.

Now, if you want to concentrate on hunting and only shoot clays occasionally to hone your skills, go ahead and get a Benelli. They are EXCELLENT hunting guns and that is probably what I would shoot if I were more serious about hunting than clays, especially waterfowl. If I were interested primarily in 3-gun, I'd probably also choose a Benelli.

Lest you think I'm a 391 fanboy, I don't shoot one as my primary sporting clays gun. I've been shooting a Krieghoff K-80 for 2 years. Before that I shot a Perazzi MX-2000 which I got in 2001 and still own and before that I shot a Browning Citori for many years. I do have 2 391s, a 12ga and a 20ga. The 12ga is my backup/rain gun and I've been on 7-8 trips to Argentina for doves (figure 1000-1500 shells a day for 5 days) with the 20ga. But, if I were forced to sell all my guns, the 12ga 391 would be the last to go; it's by far the most versatile.

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@leftnose, Thanks for sharing. Lots of good info for someone just getting into clays of any kind. There is so many options and info to consider when starting this sport. So again, I appreciate all the input and your opinion.

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If I had known what I know now about sporting clays when I first started, I would have bought a 390 (391 hadn't been released yet) and run that into the ground before getting something else. The Beretta autos are a ton of gun for the money and a number of the best shooters in the world use one. In fact, once you start spending money beyond what a basic 391 target model costs, you get into the land of diminshing returned pretty darn fast.

If you know you like clays and really want to take it seriously with a semi-auto, get a Beretta. If you're more interested in shooting a round of clays a couple of times a year, anything will get the job done from an 870 to Bertuzzi.

Edited by leftnose
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"Beware, though, there are two versions of the 391, field and target. The target model is heavier so if you're shooting clays, be sure to get a target model."

In addition, if you are shooting a clay game exclusively then get a 391 named after the discipline. Trap for trap, sporting for sporting ... a lot of hair splitting could apply but I believe this is good general advice. If I was going to shoot a little of everything then I'd get a sporting model. Caveat sporting is the game I enjoy most.

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Ok, great thread. I am curious on anyone's thoughts on the Standard Vs. the Parallel stock. I shot trap for several years, sold my Ljutic a few years back because all you could do is shoot trap with it and now just want more of a sporting clays/5 stand gun that I can shoot a few rounds of trap with, or take into the field but mainly use as a clays gun.

I am thinking the A400 Xcel, Sporting, 30", just not sure which stock. I do think the KO is interesting, but that could go either way, more curious about the parallel vs standard and how it would effect someone that shot a lot of trap.

My understanding is that the 391 action is not quite as good as the 400, and is being replaced by the 400. Such as the 390 being replaced by the 391, is this really the case or has anyone heard differently?

My only other issue is making sure I get the Sporting Clays Model. I know with the 400, the action is blue, but I have driven to see a couple 391's that were the "sporting clays" guns, that turned out to be field guns. why is is so hard for guys that work at gunshops to know their product sometimes? Sporting, Field, Target and Clays can mean different things.

Thank you,

WG

Edited by Wild Gene
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Ok, great thread. I am curious on anyone's thoughts on the Standard Vs. the Parallel stock. I shot trap for several years, sold my Ljutic a few years back because all you could do is shoot trap with it and now just want more of a sporting clays/5 stand gun that I can shoot a few rounds of trap with, or take into the field but mainly use as a clays gun.

If SC will be your primary sport and you'll only shoot a few rounds of trap occasionally and shoot a few birds, a Beretta auto is perfect. Just be sure to get a shell catcher for when you're shooting trap.

I am thinking the A400 Xcel, Sporting, 30", just not sure which stock. I do think the KO is interesting, but that could go either way, more curious about the parallel vs standard and how it would effect someone that shot a lot of trap.

The first answer is to pick the one that fits you better. The second answer is that the parallel stock is more of a high trap stock and will probably make the gun shoot high. As long as it fits you OK, for what you describe, I would probably get the standard sporing stock. KO is your choice. But in you first paragraph you say mainly sporting clays and some trap. Here you say a lot of trap. If I shot "a lot" of trap, I wouldn't get a compromise gun for it. I would get a dedicated trap gun and then something to shoot everything else.

My understanding is that the 391 action is not quite as good as the 400, and is being replaced by the 400. Such as the 390 being replaced by the 391, is this really the case or has anyone heard differently?

The main problem with the 391 action compared to the 390 is that it is a giant pain in the butt to clean. You need tools to break it down properly. Both the 390 and 391 will shoot pretty much any shell you put in them. The 391 is slimmer (better, IMO) and it is designed with a captive gas system (hence the need of the tools). The gas system of the 390 will come apart whenever you take the forend off and it is pretty easy to re-assembly incorrectly. So the evolution from the 390 to the 391 was slimmer, captive, can't be put together incorrectly but harder to clean. My understanding is that the 400 gas system is fairly similar to the 391 but easier to clean.

And while I say that the 391 is hard to clean, it really doesn't need to be done very often. I break down the gas system of my 391s once a year and that's never been problematic. I do clean the piston and piston rod after every outing but the gas cylinder gets neglected.

My only other issue is making sure I get the Sporting Clays Model. I know with the 400, the action is blue, but I have driven to see a couple 391's that were the "sporting clays" guns, that turned out to be field guns. why is is so hard for guys that work at gunshops to know their product sometimes? Sporting, Field, Target and Clays can mean different things.

In my experience it is pretty rare to find someone in a gunshop who really knows shotguns, except for the specialty shops like Etchen or Jaqua or Paxton or Pacific, etc.. Yes, the 400 is a different color. With the 391, the easiest way to tell is by looking at the stock. The extra weight of the target models comes from a heavier stock. If you set a field model and a target model next to each other, you can easily see how much thicker the target stock is, especially the pistol grip and bottom side back to the butt.

Edited by leftnose
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Great and thanks. When I said "a lot of Trap" I was past tense. I had shot a lot of trap, so would probably be more suited to a gun that shot a bit higher than a field gun, and you address that question in the parallel stock question. It is as I thought it was, but really appreciate the confirmation. One of my biggest issues with any field gun that I pick up is that I will shoot them like my trap gun and so I am shooting below the bird (not covering it enough). I was curious if the parallel stock may help me with this. My biggest goal is to get one shotgun and know how to use it, not several that I have to remember how to use. ;)

Thanks again,

wg

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No foot stomping disagreement but I think cleaning a 391 is fairly straight forward. (Go to ShotgunWorld.com then to the Beretta forum find Seamus's book on the 391, and learn the 391.) I think it is worth noting there are several springs that merit replacement every 5000 to 10000 rounds. Beretta agrees with me some shooters go hurumph when they read this. If I were going to buy a semi it would be a 391 but have shot one much and I can get it to a perfect fit easily. A 400 is probably a excellent choice I just don't have enough experience since all I know came out of magazine articles.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=101242

Edited by Tangram
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No foot stomping disagreement but I think cleaning a 391 is fairly straight forward. (Go to ShotgunWorld.com then to the Beretta forum find Seamus's book on the 391, and learn the 391.) I think it is worth noting there are several springs that merit replacement every 5000 to 10000 rounds. Beretta agrees with me some shooters go hurumph when they read this. If I were going to buy a semi it would be a 391 but have shot one much and I can get it to a perfect fit easily. A 400 is probably a excellent choice I just don't have enough experience since all I know came out of magazine articles.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=101242

A 391 is straightforward to clean. It's just harder to clean than a 390, 1100, or a Benelli.

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Ok, someone just bought the 391..... I love it, no regrets. My son gets the Benelli, I am keeping the Beretta. I will let you know what I think about cleaning it when I get to that. Too busy bustin clays at the moment.

wg

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Ok, someone just bought the 391..... I love it, no regrets. My son gets the Benelli, I am keeping the Beretta. I will let you know what I think about cleaning it when I get to that. Too busy bustin clays at the moment.

Congrats. The only change to a 391 I would suggest: http://www.briley.com/berettaezboltreleaseleverkit.aspx. To me, one of these is required while any other change is optional.

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Congrats on the new 391, at least one of has made a purchase:)

I can not stress how stupid people can be. I called shops before I'd go check out shotguns, and several said they had the Sporting Clays Model...WRONG. Bring your smart phone or what ever so you can show them what you want. The Blue 400's, well to most guys it is either camo or blued, and you ask about the anodized blue receiver and they're like "sure, it's blue". Check the tags, do what ever you have to do. You will pick up a field model and they are totally different in feel etc., vs the clays model.

good luck,

wg

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Yes I have found that myself. It is amazing how you go to a major gun shop and no one seems to understand what you are asking about. Fun you mentioned blue-several told me yeah it's blue, meaning blueing. Oh well, prep work prior is important. Enjoy your new shotgun, I am jealous.

Congrats on the new 391, at least one of has made a purchase:)

I can not stress how stupid people can be. I called shops before I'd go check out shotguns, and several said they had the Sporting Clays Model...WRONG. Bring your smart phone or what ever so you can show them what you want. The Blue 400's, well to most guys it is either camo or blued, and you ask about the anodized blue receiver and they're like "sure, it's blue". Check the tags, do what ever you have to do. You will pick up a field model and they are totally different in feel etc., vs the clays model.

good luck,

wg

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Ok, I am really enjoying my 391 Urika 2 Sporting. I have had no problems cleaning it. It is a joy to shoot.....So why the hell do I still want an O/U?

Engraving!

IMG_1523.jpg

Seriously, though, your 391 will do everything you could possibly ever need a shotgun to do. There is no real need go upgrade.

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