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Dropping Mags to the Ground


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Why is it that the same folks who defend a controversial rule by copping out with the "It's a game with rules; don't like the rules, don't play the game" then go on to call someone else a "gamer"? Don't chastise someone for being a "gamer" in a game.

Yeah, I don't like the IDPA rulebook as it stands, and therefore I don't play IDPA. I'm actually interested in trying it someday, but I'm holding off until the rules are revised by these Tiger Teams. I don't want to enter into a new competition only to have to relearn a new rule set. This is my whole reason for participating in this discussion - I WANT to shoot IDPA in the future. Am I naive on a few issues regarding IDPA, sure...but I won't learn anything if I don't participate in the discussion.

On that note, I am often meeting folks at USPSA matches that have migrated from IDPA with complaints about the rules in that game. I mean, splitting hairs on whether a dropped empty mag left a round in the chamber or not is just silly. Either retain ALL the mags, or let em drop if empty...what is so hard about that? It's actually pretty easy to enforce, too. If the score keeper sees a mag on the ground with rounds in it...gig em. If it's empty, no one has to try and remember whether or not that was from a slide lock or not. To me, this mag drop thing is inviting errors in scoring, but then again a valued concept of IDPA is to give the shooter "the benefit of the doubt" right?

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Claude Werner, Director of Firearms Training LLC, compiled 5 years of civilian reported shootings from "The Armed Citizen" -- granted, not an exhaustive data field, but also probably not far from the "norm" (if there is such a thing in armed conflict). During that 5 year data field there were 482 reported shootings during which reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver, which was eventually successful after 13 shots. That's about 1/2 of 1% of the civilian shootings required a reload at all (take away the lion situation and it's less than that). Obviously those figures are going to be irrelevant if you're a gang banger, etc. but as a civilian wanting to defend yourself, even if it's WAY out of line, the probability of a needed reload is remote.

Therefore, just how important is the need to keep our participants from "round counting?" Especially since it encourages poor tactics and degrades efficiency of gunhandling, seeking some street-worthy motive is, again, just creative wordsmithing. It's arbitrarily distinguishing us from IPSC.

The idea that in a realistic situation you lose your ability to count rounds and therefore need to develop the skill to perform effectively from slidelock, is fine. However, under the strain of a "realistic situation" you will also (according to Lt. Col Dave Grossman) have a heart beat rate exceeding 140 bpm, loose your fine motor skills (hence rendering holsters with release buttons inoperable) and there's a very high probability that you'll void your bladder. The statistical probability of having an "undrawable" handgun from a button-release holster and peeing all over yourself is actually greater than the probability of needing to count your rounds. Which of these alternatives should we also seek to simulate in an IDPA event???? And if one, why not the others????

The rules are the rules, don't try to rationalize any practicality to them----they were established autocratically by guys that wanted to make a point----some worked out better than others.

Edited by Early IPSC'er
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If you drop your mag after 10 shots in the game then you are training to drop your real magazine with rounds still in it.

Actually it seems to me that it is getting people accustomed to dropping the magazine when they go to slide lock. That has no bearing to how many rounds you have in the handgun. Simple reaction to stimuli, so when the slide locks back you respond by reloading. Whatever situation you might find yourself in this is a good thing to do. :)

I meant what you said. Don't count the rounds, reload when the slide locks back. I'm not a single stack ESP'er with 9 round mags.

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Whenever I see an IDPA rules thread that begins with 'Why', I sigh...because I'm pretty sure it won't be long before it goes all "real world" and gunfight-y.

Please, review the Forum Guidelines, conveniently located at the top of every forum page for your reading pleasure.

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