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.40 minor with Clays


TacticalReload

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I've been spending time shooting revolvers lately but I figured I would bust out the Glock 35 for some shooting. However, since I haven't been shooting it, I didn't have any ammo handing so I got to loading. Unfortunately, I can't find my data from the last time I worked up a load for it so I had to start from scratch. It's sprung with a 13# spring with a few coils clipped... the spring has probably seen around 5k rounds since new and I have a replacement waiting for installation, but seeing as it was running 100% reliably so far I wanted to get the ammo recipe right before tinkering with the spring in order to avoid confusion if I run into problems.

So I'm fairly sure that I was previously running 180 or 200 gr Berry's... I think they both worked well, but I wanted to save my meager supply of 200's for major loads in my G24. So I loaded up 180gr. Berry's on top of 2.8gr of Clays in mixed brass with Federal primers at an OAL of 1.130". I don't know why I was thinking that 2.8gr was my previous load, but I ran into about 10 jams in 150 rounds. I'm guessing it's just a lack of oomph that is causing the problems since the slide doesn't look like it's catching the back of the case to feed the round... probably not cycling all the way back. The mag springs feel pretty good so I don't think that's the problem.

So here are my questions:

(1) Has anyone successfully used 180gr bullets with 2.8gr of Clays in a Glock? Maybe I was using 2.8gr with 200gr bullets and I should instead be using 3.0-3.2gr with the 180's?

(2) Can someone school me on OAL? What effect does OAL have on velocities? I figured that the shorter the OAL, the higher the pressure... but I see a lot of people here talking about loading long, even with minor loads... what is the benefit of doing this?

(3) What is likely to happen if I put an 11# spring in the gun with these same loads?

Thanks in advance!!!

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Don't know that this will help, but my XDM .40 (4.75") using Precision 185's loading 2.9gr of Clays at 1.130 gives me a PF of 145 and the load runs the stock 18lb spring.

Yeesh... then something must be wrong... maybe I have to check to see if it's metering properly.

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(2) Can someone school me on OAL? What effect does OAL have on velocities? I figured that the shorter the OAL, the higher the pressure... but I see a lot of people here talking about loading long, even with minor loads... what is the benefit of doing this?

I'm a total newb, but I do read alot, and think alot. First, 2.8 of clays seems pretty light to me. I've been using 3.4-ish under a 165. Not chrono'd yet, but internet research suggests a 140-ish pf. At 2.8 i'm not convinced you'd make minor pf unless you were using super-slippery bullets like blacks or something. this opinion is subject to retraction when I finally get my chrono this week and stop relying on other people's chrono data.

Second, OAL has 2 main effects, one is on pressure, so if you are on the verge of blowing sh!t up, a longer oal can reduce that risk, especially with a spiky sensitive powder like clays. Second, oal affects feeding, so you want to use an oal that fits in your magazines and is reliable in your gun.

3rd, it appears that oal also has an effect on velocity/pf, but the first two effects are vastly more important, so I would tend to ignore this one and just add .1 grain more powder if you need more velocity.

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(2) Can someone school me on OAL? What effect does OAL have on velocities? I figured that the shorter the OAL, the higher the pressure... but I see a lot of people here talking about loading long, even with minor loads... what is the benefit of doing this?

Thanks in advance!!!

Mostly OAL affects feeding. S_I guns are based on the .45 cartridge which has an average 1.200 OAL. .40 S&W has an average OAL of 1.125. Most S_I guns chambered in .40 feed better if the OAL is closer to the .45 ACP lengths. Because OAL will also effect pressure for most powders, most people will bump the charge a bit just to get the same PF out of a cartridge with a longer OAL.

Loading to a longer OAL is generally not dangerous as long as you are dealing with a decent charge. The problem with some powders is that they burn at different rates depending on case volume. These are not actual valid numbers An example of this would be that 2.8 grains of Clays in cartridge with an OAL of 1.000 might be dangerous because the volume is to low, therefor the pressure spikes. 2.8 grains with an OAL of 1.150 might make a beautiful minor load. 2.8 grains with an OAL of 1.200 might be dangerous because now the volume is to great and the powder will now detonate. Bump the 1.200 OAL to a charge of 3.0 grains and it might be a beautiful minor load again.

ANY loads you get off the net should be taken with a grain of salt. Be very cautious about loads that are either on the heavy side or light side of the charge range. Especially if you are loading to a different OAL.

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I worked up some loads and went and shot them today at the range, I was using a glock g35 with 180gr speer tmj bullets and winchester sp primers. I am running a SS guide rod and a 13# IMSI spring. Just to give you a idea how the different aol can affect the loads.

shot two groups of 5 in a string.

3 grains of clays at 1.135 aol

1st group, HI 729fps, Low 679fps, Average was 703fps

2nd group, Hi 733fps, Low 673fps, Average was 702fps

3 grains clays @ 1.125" aol

1st group, Hi 731fps, Low 702fps, Average was 716fps

2nd group, Hi 731fps, Low 697fps, average was 718fps

3grains clays @ 1.115"aol

1st group, Hi 729fps, Low 699fps, Average was 714fps

2nd group, Hi 739fps, Low 729fps, Average was 734fps

I dont like the spread in the 1.135" aol, I also had 1 a failure to feed at this length. I also am not sure what happened with the first group at 1.115, I will load this again and chrono agian to see what the results are.

I also ran 2 strings of 5 at 3.2 grains of clays at 1.125"aol

1st group, Hi 794fps, Low of 771fps, Average was 781fps

2nd string, Hi 791fps, Low of 765fps and average of 778fps

I dont endorse these loads as safe in youre gun and as stated above, take all load data you find on the net with a grain of salt and a pound of wisdom :cheers:

Hope this helps, stan

Edited by noexcuses
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Anything below 3.0gr of CLAYS and you can have bridging in the powder measure. It is not that it will, but it can. Make sure your powder measure is at least half full all the time.

1.130 is fine for OAL on .40, minor or otherwise.

3.2gr CLAYS with a 180fmj is a great load for stock springs, and a lighter spring will show more benefit. Soft loads are fun, but a gun that runs with light loads 100% is much better.... ;)

Have fun,

DougC

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  • 4 months later...

Some testing from Tuesday:

Rainier 180gr Flat Points

Clays 3.0gr

CCI 500 SPP

OAL 1.125"

54 rounds over the chrono - 6 out of 54 under 695FPS (11%)

Hi: 757 fps

Lo: 641 fps

Avg: 722 fps

ES: 116

SD: 22

All rounds functioned in an XDM40 4.5" with stock recoil spring (18 lbs).

Going to bump up to 3.1gr and it should be good.

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I've been spending time shooting revolvers lately but I figured I would bust out the Glock 35 for some shooting. However, since I haven't been shooting it, I didn't have any ammo handing so I got to loading. Unfortunately, I can't find my data from the last time I worked up a load for it so I had to start from scratch. It's sprung with a 13# spring with a few coils clipped... the spring has probably seen around 5k rounds since new and I have a replacement waiting for installation, but seeing as it was running 100% reliably so far I wanted to get the ammo recipe right before tinkering with the spring in order to avoid confusion if I run into problems.

So I'm fairly sure that I was previously running 180 or 200 gr Berry's... I think they both worked well, but I wanted to save my meager supply of 200's for major loads in my G24. So I loaded up 180gr. Berry's on top of 2.8gr of Clays in mixed brass with Federal primers at an OAL of 1.130". I don't know why I was thinking that 2.8gr was my previous load, but I ran into about 10 jams in 150 rounds. I'm guessing it's just a lack of oomph that is causing the problems since the slide doesn't look like it's catching the back of the case to feed the round... probably not cycling all the way back. The mag springs feel pretty good so I don't think that's the problem.

So here are my questions:

(1) Has anyone successfully used 180gr bullets with 2.8gr of Clays in a Glock? Maybe I was using 2.8gr with 200gr bullets and I should instead be using 3.0-3.2gr with the 180's?

(2) Can someone school me on OAL? What effect does OAL have on velocities? I figured that the shorter the OAL, the higher the pressure... but I see a lot of people here talking about loading long, even with minor loads... what is the benefit of doing this?

(3) What is likely to happen if I put an 11# spring in the gun with these same loads?

Thanks in advance!!!

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A few of the guys here at my station and I are fairly new to 3 Gun. After shooting my XDM 9mm w/a few SP add ons, they all want one but in 40. I had some 165's so I just loaded and chrono'd these to show the guys how nice the 40 can be.

3.5gr of Clays

165gr Speer JHP

Federal Brass

Loaded to 1.13 OAL

I ran two ten round groups over the chrono that averaged 772 and 775 fps from an HK P2000. I can only guess that it will be even better in an XDM, maybe drop a tenth or two powder wise.

This was like shooting a BB gun compared to our full house duty loads, 155's that average 1105 fps out of an HK.

Matt

Edited by MJPLEO
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  • 3 months later...

I've been spending time shooting revolvers lately but I figured I would bust out the Glock 35 for some shooting. However, since I haven't been shooting it, I didn't have any ammo handing so I got to loading. Unfortunately, I can't find my data from the last time I worked up a load for it so I had to start from scratch. It's sprung with a 13# spring with a few coils clipped... the spring has probably seen around 5k rounds since new and I have a replacement waiting for installation, but seeing as it was running 100% reliably so far I wanted to get the ammo recipe right before tinkering with the spring in order to avoid confusion if I run into problems.

So I'm fairly sure that I was previously running 180 or 200 gr Berry's... I think they both worked well, but I wanted to save my meager supply of 200's for major loads in my G24. So I loaded up 180gr. Berry's on top of 2.8gr of Clays in mixed brass with Federal primers at an OAL of 1.130". I don't know why I was thinking that 2.8gr was my previous load, but I ran into about 10 jams in 150 rounds. I'm guessing it's just a lack of oomph that is causing the problems since the slide doesn't look like it's catching the back of the case to feed the round... probably not cycling all the way back. The mag springs feel pretty good so I don't think that's the problem.

So here are my questions:

(1) Has anyone successfully used 180gr bullets with 2.8gr of Clays in a Glock? Maybe I was using 2.8gr with 200gr bullets and I should instead be using 3.0-3.2gr with the 180's?

(2) Can someone school me on OAL? What effect does OAL have on velocities? I figured that the shorter the OAL, the higher the pressure... but I see a lot of people here talking about loading long, even with minor loads... what is the benefit of doing this?

(3) What is likely to happen if I put an 11# spring in the gun with these same loads?

Thanks in advance!!!

I've used 3.2gr Clays with 180gr Zero TCFM's. It's pretty light and my IDPA buddies gave me a lot of sh!t for using these powder puff loads. Never chrono'd them but a friend who gave me the recipe swears they make PF for SSP.

Shooting a Glock 23 gen4 and a 27 Gen4.

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And I thought I was loading a creampuff load! I am using 3.4gr of Clays in my M&P40 at 1.13 and it is very soft shooting but cycles consistantly. I might have to try something lower for the wife to try.

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