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40 S&W Chambering and/or Loading Issues


cslafrain

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I have an STI Eagle in 40 S&W and I have been having a repeated problem with my loads not fully chambering.

Here is what I am loading:

180 Gr. BBI and Bayou

3.3 N320

OAL is 1.135

Here is what I load with:

Dillon 550

EGW U die and the rest are Dillon

Brass is presized with a carbide GRX

What I am seeing:

when chamber checking the rounds they will not fully seat. I get about 1/32" above the length of the hood that still sticks out. When I fully press them in and pull them back out I get some shaving of the moly coating in 1 area of the bullet. This happens to 100% of what I am producing. They will run when I see this and I know if it gets longer than the 1/32 that i need to throw it out. When I chrono I get some 60fps variations which is way more that the 9mm I produce on the same press (usually less than 12). I have checked crimp, bullet size, etc. It will fully chamber factory FMJ loads. There is no way possible to load longer (as I would like) because it gets worse the longer it gets. I am at wits end and on the edge of sending it off for a new barrel. The only other thought I had was to back it down in OAL. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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I went through this recently as well, and determined that Glock bulge issue was killing me. For those that do not fully chamber, micrometer the base of the casing, right before the extractor bevel. I was finding a bulge area that was as much as 10.95 mm in extreme cases. My block would eat em like candy, my STI...not so much :-)

I see you are using the GRX, How many casings have you gone through? It has a limited lifetime, and might not be resizing them all the way anymore.

Edited by nanopistol
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I know it is not the bulge because the raw cases pass case gage with no issues. When i chamber check a sized case same thing - passes 100%.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

this sound like a clear example of too long of an overall length. seat the bullet deeper and test as per The_Vigilante's advice.

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Ok this is what I found but I dont know how to fix it. I started checking the same ammo out of my Nighthawk T3 40 barrel. Most would fully seat but a few would not. I then put a sharpie to the case to see where the interference was and this is what I found.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb367/idpalafrain/2011-10-31193541.jpg

Either the bullet is out of round or it is seating in the case crooked.

I did notice that several rounds just fell right in on the nighthawk barrel where that never happens on the STI.

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if the loaded cartridge is out-of-round, you might consider using a Lee Factory Crimp die in your last stage. It will "correct" minor imperfections by "sizing" it to the proper specs, and has been known to allow rounds to fit in tight chambers and such.

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The Lee Factory Crimp die and Molys dont mix. They specifically call it out not to use on their website. I did a search on the forums and it is a definite no-no. Thanks for the suggestion but I am just to cautious to try that one.

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The Lee Factory Crimp die and Molys dont mix. They specifically call it out not to use on their website. I did a search on the forums and it is a definite no-no. Thanks for the suggestion but I am just to cautious to try that one.

I had run into the same issue with an STI Edge in 40SW. The Lee FCD took care of it until I went to a moly bullet and created a number of fliers because of it. I removed the Lee FCD, (went back to a Dillon) with a Whidden floating die toolhead. Now, the only real case gauge issue I have is an occasional split case. ...might solve your problem.

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I think you're in a tricky situation. It looks like the case is scraping *just* below where the taper crimp happens. This could be the result of too much flare, or because the bayou bullet is a thousandth larger in diameter compared to a FMJ.

Few questions:

1. When you're performing these tests, is your barrel REALLY clean? No carbon built up in the chamber at all?

2. Does this same area of the case scrape when you load FMJs with the same flare/crimp?

3. What press/dies are you using?

Edited by kalaur
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Kalaur - Yes the barrel is really clean - I wont use it as a gage until it is cleaned. I do not load FMJ so I have no idea what they do. THanks - I will try decreasing the bell.

Azrik - I use the Whidden machined head for the 550 but not the floating head - might be worth a try. Thanks

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I went to Redding, competition, seating dies, and don't have any crooked bullets anymore!

The only thing I use Lee final crimp dies for, is to push empty brass through, to remove "Glock bulges". :surprise:

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It looks to me like you have a very tight barrel. Moly is .005 larger than jacketed so the case is .005 larger in diameter after the bullet is seated and crimped. I ran into a similar issue with my .45. The bullet (Precision) hit the rifling when loaded to the same OAL as jacketed. I reduced the OAL by .01 and they all chambered fine. You are either going to have to shoot all jacketed/ plated, or get your chamber reamed a couple of thousandths.

Have you measured the diameter of your Moly rounds compared to the jacketed rounds at the point that the marker wore off?

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Chandler,

I had the same problem with my Eagle and BBI's at the same length, 1.135 +/-. I reduced the OAL on the next batch I loaded to around 1.125 +/- (if I remember correctly) and it appears to have cured the problem.

I ran 100 or so rounds without a problem. I need to load and test more to confirm, but I think that the length was the issue. I was getting a ring at the shoulder of the bullet where the moly was rubbed/shaved off.

I haven't had that gun out in a while though. I'll let you know when I get a chance to run some more through it.

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Thanks all. There are a couple of things I will be working on during my next setup based on some info from Shay Akai at Akai Custom. He pointed me into looking at my bell during powder fill and crimp. My bell was excessive causing me to overcrimp. However directky underneath the case mouth it would have a bulge. I also plan on reducing the OAL to 1.125. I also noticed the bell was slightly offset which means I am going to pull all of the dies and start from scratch to try to get better centering. Thanks for all the assistance.

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Have you mic'd your bullets?

I usually cast and then size my own to .401. My barrel's throat is tight and anything over .4015 gives me problems. When I do buy, I often have to size the supposedly "sized" bullets because some batches are over sized or even slightly out of round. I called some of the manufacturers of the bullets because the bullets that arrive are .402-.403, not the advertised .401 size. Their replies have been; "we sized them to .401" or even "no one else is complaining". To me, if they state .401, it should be .401...

That being said, your barrel's throat may be tight too. Mic your bullets and if some are bigger, mark, then load and finally chamber test them to see if the "fat" bullets are the problematic ones. Lastly, you might try turning the good as well as the bad 90° in the chamber to see if they bind or cease to bind...

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So you need to reduce the OAL. Start at 1.13 and then lower it .005 until it drops in the barrel and drops out of the barrel freely.

No way. My STI will chamber cartridges at 1.300"!

I know it is not the bulge because the raw cases pass case gage with no issues. When i chamber check a sized case same thing - passes 100%.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

this sound like a clear example of too long of an overall length. seat the bullet deeper and test as per The_Vigilante's advice.

Again, no. STI's factory leade is way longer than that. Nearly everyone runs 1.180-1.200" or longer in factory STIs; do a search on the forum if you don't believe me.

Have you mic'd your bullets?

I usually cast and then size my own to .401. My barrel's throat is tight and anything over .4015 gives me problems. When I do buy, I often have to size the supposedly "sized" bullets because some batches are over sized or even slightly out of round. I called some of the manufacturers of the bullets because the bullets that arrive are .402-.403, not the advertised .401 size. Their replies have been; "we sized them to .401" or even "no one else is complaining". To me, if they state .401, it should be .401...

That's exactly the problem I had with one box of bullets. The problem has not since repeated--but a few bullets, like 4 or 5 out of 1000, were oversized and giving me fits. Never a problem since!

Also, STI has a lifetime, no BS warranty. Cheely is a great gunsmith but no sense in paying him to do the work when STI will fix a defective gun for free. Just make sure your gun is messed up and not your loads or the operator. I almost sent my gun back to STI before I realized that it was oversized bullets causing my problem.

Edited by twodownzero
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I just purchased mine and run 1.135 for 100rnds and trimmed the cases to .840 for uniformity while testing powders and loads. I didn't have any problems, I then ran 300rnds of my Glock 22 ammo with 2 problems they OAL on them was 1.18 to 1.22 they all feed great the 2 problems came from the case mouth being belled a little to far. I don't crimp my loads and this was the only issue I had.

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