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Recoil Springs Revisisted.


bkeeler

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Recoil springs revisited:

I have started messing with recoil spring weights again. I am currently running a 13lb variable spring(used to run a 12lb straight weight a year ago). Testing on the bench the recoil spring is verified 13lb on my home made recoil spring tester. Realize this is a bench test only at this point.

Now the bench test:

With the slide locked back and magazine inserted two hand grip I release the slide and the gun chambers a round and I watch the front sight (got this from a post from GMan Bart I think). The 13lb variable spring had very little movement when the round chambered and the slide closed. Tried a straight weight 12lb recoil spring again verified on the spring tester. The result was the sight dipping down dramatically. I felt that the closing of the slide with the 13lb variable spring was smoother when the slide is closing and chambering a round with very little sight movement. The straight weight 12lb spring had a major effect on the sight movement it actually caught me by surprise as I did not expect it to move the sight down that much. So I am thinking maybe a 14lb variable spring maybe better I will be testing this tonight and also a 15lb variable spring. After this I will live fire test and report back. I am thinking at this point that the heavier variable spring may be better. My slide is a stock STI 5" Eagle slide bushing barrel classic slide Flat topped and front and rear cocking serrations. Now a bull barreled gun may react differently. Just from the bench test I like how smooth the slide closes with the variable spring compared to the more violent straight weight spring. Also all season last year I was running a 13lb variable spring. Thinking a may go up to a 14lb variable spring we will see.

Live fire Recoil spring test:

At the range last night I set up a classic target at 10yds and Tried the variable 13lb spring which I have been running in the gun. Now all these springs I tested in the gun where verified for there weight on my spring tester and are new springs. Started with the 13lb variable spring and shot it and tracked the sights the sights did not track very predictably they tracked ok but sometimes the sights would end up just a little low and left and a couple high right had mostly "A" zone hits the shots low left were "C" hits if I recall correctly it was about 4 "C" hits, shooting at a pretty good shot split, increased the split times on each test with the same spring did this test about 5 strings and had the same results, keep in mind I am shooting as fast as I can see the sights. Now time to try the 14lb variable spring the sights tracked more predictably nothing low left or high right again all "A" hits again tried this several times with the same results. Now time for the 15lb variable and wow the sights tracked very predictably and right where the gun needed to return right where I was looking in the center of the target! So my conclusion for me, my gun and loads is the 15lb variable recoil spring enabled me to get the gun back on target in the exact same spot each and every shot again all "A" hits but in the center of the target! YMMV with your gun your load and shooting style! Is lighter better I used to think so, not for me and my shooting style/loads! I will be using a 15lb variable spring in my Limited gun from here on out (until I try the test again and see if anything has changed in my shooting style that would make things better). Just because TJ,TT, and what ever other top GM runs a light spring doesn't mean that it will work for everyone you must test this for yourself to find out what works for YOU! Give the test a try you might be surprised ea-their way you go with the spring weight. Forgot to mention that I run a 17lb main spring and the gun is a Bushing Barrel 5" STI Eagle Classic Flat Topped slide. Hope some of you found this helpful, I feel it helped me figure out what spring to use for me.

See you at the range!

BK

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Great post, I was thinking about trying different weight springs to see of my pistol runs any better, or if it would settle back on the target quicker. Thanks for the info, now I just need to get the springs and try it.

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  • 4 months later...

Interesting outcome. Just left the range and was working with some 40 cal. minor loads and the springs. I came away with more questions than answers though (will have to spend more time and ammo on it but had to get home to load ammo for the ProAm this weekend!). Like you said above, it seems like the going wisdom is that the lighter recoil spring the better and another common thread seems to be that the heavier bullet will give softer shooting 40 minor ammo. Both seemed to be wrong for me today. I have been shooting a 15lb spring since downloading for minor as the 17lb was to stiff.

I tried the 13lb spring and could not really see a difference in the sights tracking at first (I am using a tungsten guide rod) but then I realized that my POI was not about 2 inches high at 10 yards! I had not seen a real shift in where the rounds impact at 10 yards over a wide range of velocities or different bullet weights or in the change from 17 to 15lb springs. For now, that was it for the 13lb spring, but wonder what caused the shift.

I also seemed to find that the 165grn FMJs felt like they were shooting softer than 180s running slightly slower, again against what most people report.

Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

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Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

You can say that again! (Okay)

Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

And never forget to be open to that in every technical realm - bullet weight, spring weight, sight dimensions, etc. ...

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Not sure who you were asking either, but in case you want my very uninformed (new to the spring change game) choice, they are ISMI. I am using a non-captured tungsten guide rod from Speed Shooter's Specialties and the various springs Kenny brought with it for me were from ISMI so those are what I am using. It looks like those are the ones he suggests on the website but it does say others can be used.

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I run a 11# in my Briley 6" gun, and its the softest shooting gun i have ever shot! When I was running a 5" long dust cover gun, I was running a 14# spring, and I could not get the kind of splits that I wanted. One day i was videoing myself, and when i watched the gun in slow motion, I noticed a tunning fork effect on the end of my gun. I could only attribute it to the slide slamming shut and wiggling at the end of the cycle. With that particular gun it did not like the heavy recoil springs, or it just didn't work with my grip etc. and I couldn't get it to feed anything with a spring lighter than that 14#spring. But I feel that the tunning effect was causing a slight delay in my sight alignment to comfortable break an accurate shot, and thus slowing my split times...Now if the targets where spitting distance away that was a different story, I could just rip them. But where you notice the difference is on the longer distance shots.

You may consider taking video of the gun in action, and watching it in slow motion to see how it really tracks and how it reacts to different recoil weights.

Personally, If the gun cycles in .05 of a second I would like the gun to come back in .01 and let it come forward with that .04 of a second, instead of vice versa. I would like the recoil impulse to happen as quickly as possible. For me I am able to track the gun a little better. Of course, that is an exagerated example, but I think you can understand the concept that I am gettin at.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

You can say that again! (Okay)

Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

And never forget to be open to that in every technical realm - bullet weight, spring weight, sight dimensions, etc. ...

By sight dimensions I assume you mean diameters up front and width on the back?

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Rob,

If you are asking me, I always used Wolfe springs - standard wind - no "vari-coil" stuff.

So the Chrome Silicon are the ones your talking about?

Thanks

Rob

No, I think Brian just uses the regular Wolff recoil spring not the Chrome Silicon. I prefer the variable recoil springs......

BK

Edited by bkeeler
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Excellent writeup! I like to do the same thing on the range with new guns as well. I usually just use the straight weight springs, but I may pick up a few variables just for the fun of it. Ya never until you try, right?

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I just put an 18lbs Wolf spring in my bull barrel, long dust cover Edge. I've been running a tungsten guide rod for years with who knows what weight spring from my gunsmith. It felt like 12 or close. Now the felt recoil is a little more than a .22! I'm running 180MG CMJ with 4.7gr of N320 and 1.125 OAL. I'm so glad I decided to play with my springs the other day and may try a little heavier or a variable spring. It does lock the slide back on the mags that are setup that way and the brass flies 5 to 6 feet.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just put an 18lbs Wolf spring in my bull barrel, long dust cover Edge. I've been running a tungsten guide rod for years with who knows what weight spring from my gunsmith. It felt like 12 or close. Now the felt recoil is a little more than a .22! I'm running 180MG CMJ with 4.7gr of N320 and 1.125 OAL. I'm so glad I decided to play with my springs the other day and may try a little heavier or a variable spring. It does lock the slide back on the mags that are setup that way and the brass flies 5 to 6 feet.

I run a 18,5 vari coil Wollf in my bull barrel as well.I shoot 200grs LWSCBB over 4,7grs of N310 and it feels like I'm cheating...last month a RO sent me to che Chrono test because he was thinking I was shooting minor :D ...and it's been right there that the RO at the chrono was :surprise: to discover that the ammo reached a whopping 186 PF ;) !

I won that match...I won a few more in the following week...my gun runs like a million $$$ with this set up and that's the important thing!As a side not I'll keep using the boatload of truck-stopping cartridges I've loaded in matches...they're surgically accurate and in spite of the PF they're pleasant to shoot...at least as far as the gun is set up!

Cheers

Manny

Edited by Canuck63
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I just put an 18lbs Wolf spring in my bull barrel, long dust cover Edge. I've been running a tungsten guide rod for years with who knows what weight spring from my gunsmith. It felt like 12 or close. Now the felt recoil is a little more than a .22! I'm running 180MG CMJ with 4.7gr of N320 and 1.125 OAL. I'm so glad I decided to play with my springs the other day and may try a little heavier or a variable spring. It does lock the slide back on the mags that are setup that way and the brass flies 5 to 6 feet.

I run a 18,5 vari coil Wollf in my bull barrel as well.I shoot 200grs LWSCBB over 4,7grs of N310 and it feels like I'm cheating...last month a RO sent me to che Chrono test because he was thinking I was shooting minor :D ...and it's been right there that the RO at the chrono was :surprise: to discover that the ammo reached a whopping 186 PF ;) !

I won that match...I won a few more in the following week...my gun runs like a million $$$ with this set up and that's the important thing!As a side not I'll keep using the boatload of truck-stopping cartridges I've loaded in matches...they're surgically accurate and in spite of the PF they're pleasant to shoot...at least as far as the gun is set up!

Cheers

Manny

Why do you favor 310 over 320? I dropped in a 20lbs CS spring in and didnt notice much difference over the 18 but I think I'll keep it. Some say with a heavy recoil spring the nose of the gun actually dips but I haven't noticed.

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Why do you favor 310 over 320? I dropped in a 20lbs CS spring in and didnt notice much difference over the 18 but I think I'll keep it. Some say with a heavy recoil spring the nose of the gun actually dips but I haven't noticed.

Hi Jim,

I favor 310 0ver 320 because with the former I can make major with cartridges that are either accurate and soft.I use it with 200grs LSWCBB, 230grs lead and FMJ bullets and just started experimenting with 252grs lead bullets.

I'm rather partial to heavy springs on all of my 40cal limited guns and 1911s.Many may disagree but AFAIC heavier springs translate into less felt recoil,the slide getting back to battery faster and,always AFAIC no front dip to speak of,in fact double taps at a paper target at 8yds result in holes quite close to each other ("cat's eys" and "eights" are not rare by any means)and there's no sign of muzzle dip.On the other hand I've got a very strong grip and I'm now accustomed to this set up and to the way the gun behaves and react.

In stages where you start with the gun in condition 2 or 3 you have to firmly grab and rack the slide to chamber the first round,rather than lightly "pinch" it as you would with a 12lbs spring but we cannot have everything,can we?

:cheers:

Manny

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE- I have had more FTF with the 20lbs spring than I've had in 40,000 before. I called Dawson and he recommended 13 lbs for Major .40 and 14lbs for hotter rounds. I've ran three full mags with the 13 without a problem which I would have had six FTF with the 20. Take this info with a grain of salt but this is what I e experienced.

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