Advice on Witness Match 40/10mm purchase

[David Kachel]

I am intrigued by these guns and drawn to the relative low cost of having multiple calibers in the same weapon.

Specifically, I want to end up with a Witness Match in which I can shoot both .40 S&W and 10mm.

What is the best way to go? Should I buy a .40 gun along with a 10mm barrel, spring and mags, or a 10mm gun along with a .40 barrel, spring and mags? And why might one route be preferable to the other?

If I buy the 10mm gun, can I use its recoil spring with the .40 setup or do I still need a separate spring for the .40? (I know I can't do the same in reverse.)

Is the ejection port on the 10mm slide larger than the one on the 40 slide?

Will the 10mm mags really work without modification with .40 ammo?

I have never handled this weapon before but today did have a chance to handle and fire a CZ 75 Tactical Sport. I liked it but the grip frame is a bit too large in circumference for my hand and the safety slightly too much of a reach. From reading the specs of both weapons it appears the Witness has a grip that is somewhat smaller in circumference. Is this correct? Is the grip of the Witness a bit smaller than the CZ? And is the safety of the Witness a bit easier to reach?

I also plan to eventually buy an upper in .45 ACP but presume that intention will not effect the above choices. Please advise if that presumption is correct.

TIA

Edited August 22, 2010 by David Kachel

[J-Ho]

I've shot both. The Match is smaller. I'm not sure about the while caliber switching thing. I've never tried it. As to running 40s in a 10mm mag. Sure can. Most of us use 10mm mags and load long. I've run factory 40 in a 10 mag and it fed fine with certain bullet profiles.

[David Kachel]

I've shot both. The Match is smaller. I'm not sure about the while caliber switching thing. I've never tried it. As to running 40s in a 10mm mag. Sure can. Most of us use 10mm mags and load long. I've run factory 40 in a 10 mag and it fed fine with certain bullet profiles.

Please elaborate. What bullet profiles? I also have a Springfield EMP in .40 and don't want to have two classes of .40 OAL loads.

[Ronemus]

If you're going to reload, just get the 10 mm and load down to .40 levels when you want to. You'll need two recoil springs since full-power 10 mm loads will batter the frame and extractor if you use a .40 spring, and you'll probably have ejection issues using .40 loads with a 10 mm spring.

[David Kachel]

If you're going to reload, just get the 10 mm and load down to .40 levels when you want to.

I have 13,000 rounds of once-fired .40 brass and exactly 5 rounds of 10mm brass. Loaded down 10mm is not a practical option. Besides, I have other .40 weapons I need to reload for anyway.

[Sal1950]

David, I've done what you're talking about. I purchased my Match in 40 and then bought the 10mm barrel and mags from EAA, and a 20# spring from Wolff. Don't think there's any difference in the slides so it really doesn't matter which way you go about it first. You might be able to use the 10mm spring for 40 but it might be too strong for them and cause cycling issues, never tried it. What I do know is most folks experienced in the Witness 10mm guns will tell you they are under-sprung to begin with, so I think it's just better to go the way I did.

I can tell you that the 10mm barrel I received from EAA required a bit of fitting, I had to remove a few thousands from the hood area to get it to lockup.

I've had near zero issues running the 10mm mags with 40 ammo and I shot a lot of both RN-FMJ and lead SWC through it.

I also have a separate Match in 45 ACP. Since you have to buy the complete upper to do a conversion I think in the long run the resale value of having two different guns will return a better $ if the time ever comes to sell.

Cheers,

Sal

[Nealio]

If I buy the 10mm gun, can I use its recoil spring with the .40 setup or do I still need a separate spring for the .40? (I know I can't do the same in reverse.)

If you want to shoot hot 10mm loads, you cannot buy a spring that is stiff enough. I now people say this all the time, but trust me..

I run the Sprinco Recoil Reducer 2-stage guiderod after spending about 2 months experimenting with my own 2 stage springs, weaving 2 springs together to make a stiffer one, spring spacers, etc and nothing was enough. With anything short of that Sprinco 2 stage guiderod, you'll be hitting the slide on the frame which will eventually lead to cracking. If you search all the Tanfoglio/EAA forums around the internet, you'll see an unlimited supply of people who have ran 10mm in their gun with stock springs and ended up with peening where the guiderod seats and/or a cracked slides.

My guiderod seating area was starting to peen after 500 rounds, but after I put that Sprinco guiderod in there its been fine for the last 1000 rounds.

The other issue is Norma spec 10mm loads will toss brass 30+ feet on ejection. Even with my Sprinco guiderod, I still had to reduce my ejector pin by approx 50% (maybe more). It still tosses my brass 15 feet, but I don't want to cut that thing down too far...

[David Kachel]

Thanks for the responses guys.

How about the grip circumference vs the CZ? Is the Witness a bit smaller?

[Nealio]

I have only fondled the 75B and an SP-01. Those have much smaller grips than the Match.

[moto727]

I went the 10mm to the .40 route. Might be the better way to do it because then youll have the 10mm magazines. I just put about 200 rnds through it today in the .40 cal configuration using the 10mm mags without a problem. They are fun guns, youll enjoy it.

[MrVvrroomm]

I had a few feeding issues with my Witness Match .40. I just used a center punch to release the rivets on the front of the mags. This made them into 10mm mags. While I have no input into how it will run with 10mm, I have had zero feed issues with standard OAL .40 handloads.

[Nealio]

I think I would also vote for 10mm main, then convert to .40.

I'm going to get a .40 barrel for my 10mm one of these days myself..

Edited August 24, 2010 by Nealio

[bikerburgess]

If I had your brass situation I would start with the 40 and get a 10mm barrel for it. they only come with 1 mag so I would buy 10mm mags for any extras mine all feed 40 just fine both long and short OAL's. the barrels sometimes take a while to get so this way you can shoot it with the 40 you have right away. for the 10mm if you are loading full power loads I would get strongest recoil spring Wolff makes for the long slide guns (the matches have a longer spring than the standard guns) Also I would get A Henning cone fit guide rod and use a 1911 recoil buffer. I have shot full power 10mm out of my match and it will throw the brass into the next zip code even with a 22lb recoil spring so keep that in mind.

Mike.

[suzukivstrom998]

I have a new Tangfolio Match Pro 40 full frame.

My first trip to the range the
rounds won’t feed into the barrel unless I hold the bottom of the mag tightly into the mag well. Even then I have feel the slide hesitating as the rounds loads.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. This is pretty disappointing. I own another Witness in 9mm and it functions flawlessly.


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