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Robco

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About Robco

  • Birthday 03/01/1959

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Cody, Wyoming
  • Interests
    Studying and analyzing USPSA competitive shooting and improving match performance.
  • Real Name
    Rob Cook

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  1. I like that wording 'look the bullet into the target'. I've had a small breakthrough in the last week or two, especially on steel, and that phrase accurately describes what i perceive. I've finally come to terms with the thought that I simply MUST learn to call my shots in order to keep progressing, so that's going to be a real focus in my practice for the next little while. It doesn't hurt that the timer shows it's not any slower to see each shot, it just *feels* that way. Well, I have to agree how important "calling shots" is to moving up the food chain in performance level. Confidence, follow thru and efficiency are all benefits of calling shots, necessary to M class and above match performance. Just be patient and keep working at it. It will come, a little at a time. It will take time, different for everyone probably. And it will not be all at once. It will creep in a little at a time, one small degree at a time. At first, you will simply "know something was not right" with the shot, without necessarily knowing why, or what or where it hit. That is the start! The fledgling beginnings of shot calling! As you develop the skill over time, you will get more and more detailed info from each shot, = "right, high, low, left," and eventually "3 inches left and 4 inches low." I am in the mid-level of shot calling now. About a year or so into the process. An ACTIVE very intentional process. You will train your vision in the process, to SEE more and more and that is, essentially what shot calling is. And SOMETIMES, for whatever reason you fail to see the shot when executed, in which case you ASSUME the worst and make an immediate follow up shot. (This can screw you on VA Counts, but it is worth that price!). As Manny taught me, that is the DISCIPLINE and punishment for not seeing the shot. Soon you will stop having to assess this penalty on yourself!
  2. Great find, ironeyes! Starting at about the 25:30 minute mark in the audio. Awesome! I am listening to it now, over and over. Thanks.
  3. I find i get the best results when I snap my eyes to the spot on the target I want to aim at, and then immediately start pulling my focus in to where the sights will be when the gun gets there. If I see the sights clearly, i know where the shots went. When I get stuck with target focus I often blink or otherwise miss what's going on. I'm definitely still figuring it out tho, just beginning to be able to call my shots. That sounds about right Moto. Getting the eyes there first is so important and what you described assures that you are actively engaged in the shooting process. Think of it as a continuous sight picture process. I feel I "look the bullet into the target" for each shot. Not, instead, acknowledge sight picture, THEN perform the shot execution. Both are connected, parts of the whole shooting process, not individual parts or steps. Just came home from an all day training/practice session at my West Va mountain home/range with my wife and business partner and his 15 year old son. Preparing for shooting Area 8 Sunday. Spent a lot of time working on SEEING. Had everyone shoot groups at 25 yards, and then asked each what they saw, what their hits were before walking to the targets. At first, they were essentially completely ignorant of which of their 5 shots went where, etc. As if they just shot 5 shots without a CLUE as to what was happening right in front of their eyes. They quickly picked up on the need for AWARENESS and after a few more groups, they could say the 3rd shot was low to the right, and the 5th was a little high. Others seemed good. Wow. How fast just the INTENTION of being fully engaged and aware and ACCOUNTABLE makes. That is definitely the first step towards shot calling. And to me, shot calling is mostly beneficial for forcing proper attention and awareness on every shot, to the end/release, not just knowing whether a shot was good or not. This starts BEFORE the shot is released, when you can still influence the result, the other is more an afterthought/analysis. Anything that forces us to be more tuned in and in the moment while shooting, is HUGE!
  4. A followup thought which occurred to me this morning, after re-reading your initial post. For the most part, we ALWAYS initially have a target focus on each transition. Think about it. As Benos says, we always do three things in shooting. 1) Find the target, 2) move the gun to the target and 3) hold it on the target while/until the shot is released. To accomplish step one, you have nothing to optically focus on except the target, initially (Unless you are moving the eyes and gun together, which is an error as discussed above). Then, once the eyes are on the target, the gun should be very close following behind. Once the gun is on the target, your eyes, depending on the difficulty of the target, begin to accomplish the "aiming" process, which again, varies depending on the target difficulty. But in ALL cases on ALL shots, whether transitions or splits, the shot must be aimed! (No "double taps allowed in proper shooting). The aiming process can be as simple as having an optical target focus and simply "seeing" the gun/sights peripherally, blurry. Or the aiming on the other extreme, for a difficult target, can consist of not only moving the optical focus from the target where it always starts, back towards the sights to confirm both the sight picture and even the sight alignment, before releasing the shot. This is why the latter, takes more time to accomplish than the former method. And also why aiming and shooting Open with a red dot sight is so much faster than with iron sights. In reality, an expert will seldom ever have an optical focus on the front sight when a shot is released in USPSA shooting. Instead, the optical focus at the time of release will be somewhere BETWEEN the target and the front sight, in mid air, perhaps 6 feet in front of the muzzle. The more difficult the shot/target, the closer to the muzzle this optical focus will be, to allow sufficient clarity of the sights to confirm an adequate sight picture before releasing the shot. Travis Tomasie first taught me that, years before I could appreciate or understand it. Think about this, a LOT, and you will possibly get a personal understanding of the reality of how top shooters aim each shot, and then start experiencing it for yourself with AWARENESS, and next thing you know, after a lot of good work with it all, you will begin SEEING what you need to see for each shot, both to locate the target, aim the shot, and then CALL the shot.
  5. This is an interesting topic and area to discuss. There has been a lot written on similar subjects, such as Target focus vs. Sight focus. One thing I would suggest is differentiating various contextual uses of the word, FOCUS. For example, there is OPTICAL focus, which is a physical reality (bending of light thru a lens, etc). And then there is "attention" focus. And then there is a combination of those two which might be called, "seeing" or "awareness." This can all get very complex, fast. People describe and talk about "calling shots" sometimes as "seeing the sights lift." That has never worked for me. Instead, I "KNOW" the exact instant when the shot is released, and it is a complex combination of senses permitting me to know. Feel, both in the trigger and in my hands, obviously visual input of recoil occurring and momentarily disrupting the sight picture. I KNOW if the shot was bad, or something was not right about it, instantly - usually because of a timing disconnect (the shot fires slightly before or after I intended for it to, in essence, as when shooting on the move.) Since the gun is always moving, it is only actually on target momentarily, and of course that is when I desire and intend for the shot to be released. And I notice whether or not this actually occurred, due to ALL of my senses involved. And conversely, I am aware when a shot is released and for whatever reason I FAILED to know it was on target at the moment of release. Maybe due to inattention, or looking away prematurely, or blinking, or some other distraction. A related issue, which may address your situation more directly, is one of not providing adequate follow thru for a shot. A prime example is where a shooters eyes are literally already off the target and perhaps on the next target, when the shot is released. This is usually how mikes occur on extremely close and easy targets by us all at times. And the typical insistence "that HAS to be a double, no way I could miss such an easy shot!". Uh huh. The more difficult the shot, the more follow thru it needs and deserves. And conversely, the easier the shot, the less follow thru it requires, just as the necessary degree of sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control or aiming/confirmation varies depending on the difficulty and risk of any given target/shot. Finally, for this string of related ideas and thoughts from me, try to always move your eyes ahead of your gun, in transitions. Finish the current shot (follow thru and call it, as appropriate), then, usually while the gun is still in recoil, move your eyes, then your gun to the next target. NOT TOGETHER. If you move your eyes and gun together, you lose many advantages including the ability to more quickly acquire the next target visually, or the hand eye coordination to efficiently land the gun on the next target. Simple and basic, but I find myself doing this too often for my experience and skill level! And it both slows down the transition and kills your accuracy too, usually due to swinging past the target and then rushing to release the shot before you correct the over-swing and let the sights settle as they should. Just some things to consider. Your topic, "seeing" is essentially the most important aspect of our sport of practical pistol shooting. Seeing, is a LOT MORE than just optical focus. The eyes are organs, made up of parts analogous to a camera. The lens, which bends light and focuses it to a sensor/film. But then, those inputs must be processed, by the camera "computer chip" or in our case, the brain. In a digital camera, the lens and sensor result in a mass of 1/0 binary data which means nothing, and is not an image until the processor does something to/with the data. Same for our vision and the process of seeing. Very complex, yet when you learn to SEE while shooting a stage, it seems natural and simple. Enos had this SOOOOO right. I just was not ready to be able to understand Brian until I got a lot of experience and shooting and competing under my belt.
  6. I think robport makes the important point that there are MANY elements involved in match performance, and therein lies the complexity that makes high level match performance so ephemeral. It is frustrating for new and intermediate shooters to discover, or at least experience, that more practice and better specific gun-handling and shooting skills alone help in a match, but yet the "win" stays consistently out of reach, tantalizing and seemingly unattainable. As we develop we find ourselves in a constant revolving list of screw-ups in our matches. When you consider that a good match performance requires hitting on ALL cylinders, consistently, for almost every shot, on every target, on every array, in every stage, for the whole entire match, all these actions multiplied times the huge number of skills necessary to actually achieve EACH of those mini-'wins" (executed shots), the permutations of how many things have to be done completely right and the endless possibilities of how many single failures can sink your boat, it is literally amazing when we actually do as well as we do! Get one mike on a stage, and you had better do EVERYTHING else right and be fast as hell to score better than 87% of a top shooter on that stage alone. One mistake, 13% or more down. That is a pretty unforgiving performance bar. Assume you do three "mistakes" on a stage, say a mike, a feed jam (4 seconds), forgot a reload and did a standing load (2 seconds). On an average 6 HF stage (without the mistakes) now you are 57% of a top shooter. EVEN if you shoot all A's except for the Mike. Now assume there are 8 stages in the match, and you do well on 6 of them, but have problems like the above on 2 stages. Assuming a top performer does well on all 8, with only minor disappointments on a couple, such as a D hit along with their 6 C and 24 A hits, and you shoot 87% of the winner on 6 stages, and 57% on the other two stages. Your match average standing (this is illustrative math only) is now 79% of the winner, and that is being VERY charitable. I have been M class for over 2 years, in which 2 year time period I shot over 17 Area matches, A dozen Section and State championships, and 3 Nationals and about 100 club matches and my BEST finish level in an Area match (2014 Area 7) against Travis T and Matt Sweeney, was 79%. I have been on a tear for the last two years of my 4 year USPSA shooting experience, and my knowledge, skills and match experience has soared. I would say I am twice as good as I was 2 years ago. BUT, I was stuck in 72- 76% land in big matches for the whole time. So my point is, it is the CONSISTENCY that sets a top performer apart from the rest of us. Top performers make mistakes, but usually they are minimal in cost and few and far between. It is NOT because of their technical shooting skills alone. I have proven that more matches, more rounds downrange, more live and dry fire practice alone, are NOT the missing links which holds me back in the match performance. They were, and still are to a minor extent (I am still learning and getting better and have a lot of skill level improvement ahead of me), but my lack of consistency in the execution of all of these in a match environment is the decisive and obvious issue. If it wasn't one thing I would fail on, it was something else. You can literally do 95% of everything right on 95% of the stages and still end up at 73% of the winner's match points. I found through my extensive efforts and training and studying to try to accomplish "getting out of my own way" in matches, that TRYING too hard actually undermines your advancement and match performance. The more we work at getting better, the more importance we place on the outcome and the higher the expectations we set for ourselves in matches, all of which puts pressure on us and causes us to fail. A careful and consistent analysis of my match performances showed me that: 1) I needed to eliminate mistakes (gun issues, Mikes, D's and No-shoots) and 2) trust my shooting more (wasting 3 to 6 additional "insurance" shots per stage costs me as much as 15% of the points in time); 3) focus on calling each shot (instead of on "going fast" or whatever other mental malfunction I suffered). Confidence in yourself, and your shooting, and the COURAGE to simply shoot your own match, honestly without caring what you look like or how you compare to anyone else, is the key. We can only be consistent at being ourselves, and shooting at 100% of our speed and ability. Trying to shoot or perform at 101% is a sure fire way to sabotage yourself every time. VISUAL PATIENCE takes only about 3/100ths of a second more per shot, to let the sights settle and get the A every time, do the math and PROVE that this is the most effective "tactic" you can employ to eliminate mistakes and let you shoot your own personal best in a match. Training and practice is for pushing, matches are for doing. Think about that statement. It is the key to unlocking your own BEST performance on match day, and thus getting out of your own way.
  7. This is something I have discovered in the last few months in my own shooting. Learning to CONTINUOUSLY see all, during a course of fire, takes a lot of practice, focus and training. But it is worth it. THEN, the logical next step in the pursuit of higher hit factor, is learning to settle for less than perfection in each "sight picture," for the sake of speeding up a little. It requires actual skill, as well as trusting in your own shooting. You have to KNOW the shot was good and move on, even though it was not as comfortable and confirmed as it was at a slower, less advanced skill level and pace. An A is an A, whether the pair was as 5 inch group or a near double in the center of the A zone. BUT the stage points are not the same, because the 5 inch pair of A's was faster, and therefore more points! It is exactly as Brian said above, a logical result of focusing on the goal of more points per second.
  8. I started at 52, (March 2011) not in particularly good physical condition having not exercised for 15 years. But I am active, and do physical work on my ranch. Made M class in two years. Made a lot of progress in my game in the last year, but hit a wall. Finally figured out it was my poor stamina. Not that I could not run through a stage, but my mental and visual faculties definitely fade during a long shooting day at a match. Finally figured this out last month at the Oregon State championship, and started walking/jogging the next morning. In less than a week, the effects were amazing. The next weekend, I shot the Idaho Sectional, and it was a very long and hot day of shooting, and I never sagged a bit. I could have gone for many more stages! This was black and white difference and it only took me 6 days of my 3 miles a day walk/run to change it. I have only missed 4 or 5 days since I started a month ago, and most of those were match days. And not once, in the last 5 matches, have I been tired or saggy or mentally dull. SO, the point is, I finally hit a point at 56 when I could no longer coast on my good looks without doing PT work. I am sure this is very individualistic, and different for everyone. But the point remains, valid for all I believe. Chronological age does NOT have to equal our fitness age. A fit 70 year old can be MUCH "younger" than a 45 year old couch potato. And remember, being out of breath or energy is NOT the only adverse impact and effect in our sport - cognitive and visual degradation comes FIRST!
  9. Jerry, I am LMAO! Thanks for sharing and writing such an entertaining account of your painful memory!
  10. Thanks BoyGlock. Hope it helps some. I am just a student of the game!
  11. Well, maybe, although it is not at all clear whether I am seeing more or just training myself to make do with less input. Interesting distinction and there may be something valuable in there, which can be exploited in another type of training. But I am still calling my shots which is why the additional makeup shots. As I said, I makeup a shot if either 1) I call it bad, or 2) I fail to call it. Either way, I consider it a miss and immediately make it up. If I slow down, I will have all A hits and never not see a shot completely = but then that is not GM type shooting. Not sure about all the visual stuff, as it is complex and not necessarily knowable. But clearly, I am seeing FASTER and that is my point and it is translating into 15% faster match performances so far. It is important to bear in mind I am not trying to refine my A hits towards the center of the A zone, but instead I am intentionally spreading them out to the limit of the A zone as a trade off for spending less time doing the shooting. An A is an A, but the HF varies with time. So whether I am seeing more, or just seeing what I need to see faster, is a mystery and probably moot. The fact that I am calling 95% of all shots says I am seeing enough. And my accuracy confirms that too. At any rate, this pushing my speed is still very new for me this go around, and is a work in progress. As I develop better visual skills the additional shots will go away, and my efficiency and HF will rise even higher. Might take the rest of this year to accomplish this, as far as I know, but I will most likely be reclassified as a GM by then (hopefully NOT!) and definitely will be competing at a high M class in big matches by the time I get much better at this. That is a huge improvement for me, already, in all of two weeks. So whatever I am doing, it is right for me. We will see how it works out for me Saturday, in a 65 shooter club match and then at Area 1 the next week.
  12. It doesn't take any longer to see a more refined sight picture, your eyes see the same image, just your brain isn't processing it. Just break the shot when you see your sights on target, not when you confirm your sights on target That is a fair distinction, and probably true. But semantics aside, the whole point is MENTALLY deciding to not wait for a refined sight picture. It takes focus and INTENTION to shoot faster. Takes discipline to LET GO of the feeling that we need more visual information for the shot, when we do not. Training creates this intention, and it was almost magical in my case, how quickly this change occurred. Of course, I have shot 40 matches (including 5 majors), and shot 20K rounds as and M class since Dec 7th, 2014 all working on getting ready for this change. That finished the foundation skills necessary to enable me to pull off and get away with this compromised visual input and still shoot 92 to 94% of points possible in match performances.
  13. Ken, I have been reading your Diary entries regularly. Glad you are on the mend. Don't push it and undo the repairs! Sometimes, it is amazing how HARD we make this shooting sport. Often the right thing is the most obvious/simple thing. If we want to have faster times, we have to do EVERYTHING faster! Yes, our sight picture will not be perfect or comfortable on easy targets when pushing it. Yes, our trigger control might be nearly non existent on them too (Grip hard with weak hand to offset most bad trigger control!). Yes we will throw more C hits and occasional D's. Yes we will not feel comfortable while performing, the same way we can when throttled back and cruising through. BUT, we will see a higher HF if we have the underlying fundamental skills and foundation, which will ALLOW us to control the shooting at a much higher speed. I am looking forward to Area 1 to test my mettle. Sunday, in my Cody match, I literally broke my own speed barrier, finally. Here is the link to my match Video from Sunday.
  14. Been a long while on the sideline of this forum for me, as winter came to an end and spring chores on the ranch and shooting ramped up. But wanted to share a new "discovery" for me in the last two weeks, regarding my match performance speed increase. Literally, with three practice sessions in a week's time, I have taken 15% of of my performance time. After struggling for years and stuck in the 73% big match finish range, and not being able to significantly improve, I discovered my "secret" that was holding me back. Although my movement and other mechanics skills had greatly improved in the last year, my TIMES had not. The key I was missing = accepting a less refined sight picture when the targets permitted. It really is that simple. Since I am already fast on movement, splits and draws etc, I always KNEW that transitions was my weakness, where most of my time was being lost to the top shooters. Everyone has seen extremely fast shooters who end up usually not scoring well, due to sloppy hits. YET we noticed their speed, both in splits, body movements and transitions. What most of these undisciplined shooters do not know, is that they are on the right track, BUT have not built the fundamental foundation needed to "pull it off." Their accuracy and VISION skills, are not adequately high enough to survive pushing the speed to the ragged edge. Hero or Zero is the result. Well, my recent discovery was that I did not have enough confidence in my own shooting to "let go" and let it rip. I found, that I DO have adequate accuracy and vision skills now to run the gun MUCH FASTER than I had previously thought, and not make any big mistakes in the process, consistently! (Mikes, N/Ss or D's). I simply went to the range with one intention only = SHOOT as FAST as I could SEE. I did, and over three sessions in a week, of 250 rounds per session, I PROVED to myself that I could indeed speed up significantly and still shoot 90+% of the possible points. Slowing down, had almost NO effect, so I was sold. This weekend, I shot our own Cody Club match, competing with a very fast young shooter who only the week before, shot the match 9.72 seconds faster than me (I took 13.26% More time than he did). At Cody, I was half a second faster than he was. I won both matches, but the time is what is crucial and significant. I shot 94% of the possible points in BOTH matches, so not like I got sloppy fast in Cody. And the other shooter had the same general match performance in both matches. So I attribute all of this to simply forcing and then learning to accept a less defined sight picture, for the sake of speeding up. This all relates to the topic here, because there really cannot be any distinctions between sight or target focus, period, when you "turn up your vision" as Enos so correctly stated! I get it! Reducing the time between shots fired on different targets (transitions) can be accomplished by INITIALLY by more efficient movement skills, but only up to a point. Then more speed can only come by giving up something - more sight picture than necessary. And learning how to do this is probably as easy as simply forcing yourself to run the gun uncomfortably hard, and do it enough to learn how to control it without slowing down.
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